It's not a conspiracy

[s1k3sT]

Why is it that when we admit we don't believe the official conspiracy theory of 9/11 we are labeled "conspiracy theorists"?! WTF?! I always thought society leaned more towards Brave New World, but there is obviously some 1984 type doublethink as well.

Does anyone have any explanation how this happens?! We don't even have to offer a theory, just admit we don't believe the official conspiracy theory and we are labeled a "conspiracy theorist" like it's an insult...

IMHO anyone that isn't a "conspiracy theorist" isn't thinking clearly, they drank too much koolaide, no offense intended, please let me explain. If you theorize that bank robbers conspired to rob a bank you are a conspiracy theorist. Does anyone doubt that bank robbers conspire to rob banks?

I know someone is probably going to say the official story isn't a conspiracy theory, so I will get that out of the way right now. The "official" theory is that Muslims conspired to hijack planes and crash them into buildings like the wtc and pentagon.

[iamawesomewicked]

Seriously. You really need to learn what conspiracy "theory" is.

The term "conspiracy theory" may be a neutral descriptor for any legitimate or illegitimate claim of civil, criminal or political conspiracy. To conspire means "to join in a secret agreement to do an unlawful or wrongful act or to use such means to accomplish a lawful end."[5] However, conspiracy theory is also used to indicate a narrative genre that includes a broad selection of (not necessarily related) arguments for the existence of grand conspiracies.[6]

The word "theory" is, in this usage, sometimes considered to be more informal as in "speculation" or "hypothesis" rather than mainstream scientific theory. Also, the term conspiracy is typically used to indicate powerful figures, often of the Establishment, who are believed to be deceiving the population at large, as in political corruption. Although some conspiracies are not actually theories, they are often labeled as such by the general populace.

The first recorded use of the phrase "conspiracy theory" dates from 1909. Originally it was a neutral term but during the political upheaval of the 1960s it acquired its current derogatory sense.[7] It entered the supplement to the Oxford English Dictionary as late as 1997.[8]

Wiki

[Green_Eye]

Why is it that when we admit we don't believe the official conspiracy theory of 9/11 we are labeled "conspiracy theorists"?! WTF?! I always thought society leaned more towards Brave New World, but there is obviously some 1984 type doublethink as well.

Does anyone have any explanation how this happens?! We don't even have to offer a theory, just admit we don't believe the official conspiracy theory and we are labeled a "conspiracy theorist" like it's an insult...

IMHO anyone that isn't a "conspiracy theorist" is a moron, no offense intended, please let me explain. If you theorize that bank robbers conspired to rob a bank you are a conspiracy theorist. Does anyone doubt that bank robbers conspire to rob banks?

I know someone is probably going to say the official story isn't a conspiracy theory, so I will get that out of the way right now. The "official" theory is that Muslims conspired to hijack planes and crash them into buildings like the wtc and pentagon.

Good job there Captain Obvious...

[s1k3sT]

LOL, that same dumb picture again, huh? I think it is you that doesn't understand the meaning of the term. Look up the definition of conspire, then get back with me. If you don't think conspiracies happen all the time I feel sorry for you.

[.Markus]

Sorry, I'm a moron and can't therefore reply to this thread.

[s1k3sT]

Good job there Captain Obvious...

I just think it's very 1984 like to call someone a conspiracy theorist when they are pointing out that they don't believe a certain conspiracy theory, and that worries me!

Sorry, I'm a moron and can't therefore reply to this thread.

LOL, when did I say to not reply? I'm just trying to understand why I'm labeled a conspiracy theorist for saying I don't believe a certain conspiracy theory (the official explanation for 9/11).

[iamawesomewicked]

I just think it's very 1984 like to call someone a conspiracy theorist when they are pointing out that they don't believe a certain conspiracy theory, and that worries me!

LOL, when did I say to not reply? I'm just trying to understand why I'm labeled a conspiracy theorist for saying I don't believe a certain conspiracy theory (the official explanation for 9/11).

The official story, isn't a conspiracy theory, that's why.

[Stetson]

LOL, that same dumb picture again, huh? I think it is you that doesn't understand the meaning of the term. Look up the definition of conspire, then get back with me. If you don't think conspiracies happen all the time I feel sorry for you.

There's a difference between the independent definitions of the words and the connotation of the phrase.

[s1k3sT]

Seriously. You really need to learn what conspiracy "theory" is.

The official story, isn't a conspiracy theory, that's why.

It is you that needs to learn what I theory is, not me. Unless you have a recording of the conspirators conspiring it is always going to be a theory. That doesn't mean it's not enough for a jury to convict them, as long as they think the theory is strong enough they convict. Since there is no recording of the conspiring taking place it is a theory, sorry to burst your bubble.

[Green_Eye]

I just think it's very 1984 like to call someone a conspiracy theorist when they are pointing out that they don't believe a certain conspiracy theory, and that worries me!

What you are saying is true. Not even up for debate. It's a fact. Which raises the question what exactly was the point of this topic? Questioning why people call you a conspiracy theorist when you in fact question a conspiracy theory? Well that can be up to two things, 1) People do not fully understand the term and it's meaning and 2) The meanings of words change all the time and therefore a word can take on an entire new meaning depending on how it is used by the masses, an example would be that gay used to mean jolly and not a term to describe a homosexual as it has become. I just don't understand what the point of the thread is? Surely if you were "intelligent" enough to understand the "proper" meaning of conspiracy theory you would be able to figure out the reason I posted here all by yourself?

[boogerjones]

Is it possible for something like this to have an "official" story?

[s1k3sT]

There's a difference between the independent definitions of the words and the connotation of the phrase.

Which is exactly what this thread is pointing out. According to the independent definitions everyone is a conspiracy theorist, under the 1984 type connotation nowadays only a small fringe group of the population are conspiracy theorists.

[Howling Wind]

No duh the official story of 9/11 is BS. It only takes someone with common sense to know that.

Howling Wind out!

[s1k3sT]

No duh the official story of 9/11 is BS. It only takes someone with common sense to know that.

Howling Wind out!

I agree, but we need to be careful how we break the news to them. Saying they lack common sense doesn't help the matter, it wont help "wake them up". We need to be understanding, after all we were all there at one point. Just show them the reasons why you believe what you do, try not to insult their intelligence. If they refuse to look at your information simply because it's conspiracy theory explain to them that the official explanation is a conspiracy theory as well. If they still refuse to look at your information then it probably is safe to say they lack common sense, and they are willfully ignorant.

[Howling Wind]

110 story sky scrappers made of metal collapse in no time... not to mention they were quake proof.

Yeah.. I haven't seen pigs fly.

Its not about waking up. Its about doing research and not blindly following the government. I mean seriously, if someone watches the videos of the buildings falling and thinks a plane did that... there is a serious problem... >.<

EDIT. Yeah ok you have a point... but still.

[Green_Eye]

I agree, but we need to be careful how we break the news to them. Saying they lack common sense doesn't help the matter, it wont help "wake them up". We need to be understanding, after all we were all there at one point.

You two are some funny guys. I knew there was a reason for this topic and that obvious tautology was not it. You think that you are in on something that the rest of us "sheeple" do not know about and that you must "save us" so go ahead open our eyes...

[s1k3sT]

You two are some funny guys. I knew there was a reason for this topic and that obvious tautology was not it. You think that you are in on something that the rest of us "sheeple" do not know about and that you must "save us" so go ahead open our eyes...

LOL, drop the defense mechanisms for a second. No one has offered an alternative theory, just mentioned that we don't believe the official conspiracy theory. Lets say we thought we were onto something important and we had to share it to save humanity, why is that such a bad thing?! I personally wish everyone would save themselves, because I believe that is the only way to be saved, but I know there is no magical phrase I can type here to "wake someone up", so instead I just try offering a differing point of view. Want to know how to save yourself? Do what Howling Wind suggested, do the research! There are no silver bullets in life, if we want knowledge we need to work to achieve that knowledge.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/f67q6272583h86n4/

[Howling Wind]

for your information I'm female. Planes don't collapse buildings. End of discussion. Do the rest of the research.

[PreKe]

Why is it that when we admit we don't believe the official conspiracy theory of 9/11 we are labeled "conspiracy theorists"?!

Probably because the people who believe these nonsensical conspiracy theories are usually completely nuts, and willfully reject all facts that don't match their preconceptions. It's one thing to go "hey that Bush guy is a ****ing *******, and I wouldn't be surprised if he pulled a stunt like this". It's another to go from that to "Bush dunnit!"

IMHO anyone that isn't a "conspiracy theorist" isn't thinking clearly, they drank too much koolaide

Considering the fact that I think Bush is a ****ing ******* and a disgrace to humanity, what kool-aid have I been drinking, exactly? If there's anyone who would be open to any dirt you can dig up on Bush, it would be me.

But, you see, I have this tendency to actually look up the facts. Or if I fail to look up the facts and someone else schools me on the facts, I will have no choice but to accept them.

Take it from someone who would love to blame Bush directly for 9/11: 9/11 Truthers are insane.

[Ironman273]

Here's the transcript of what really happened

BUSH: So, what's the plan again?

CHENEY: Well, we need to invade Iraq and Afghanistan. So what we've decided to do is crash a whole bunch of remote-controlled planes into Wall Street and the Pentagon, say they're real hijacked commercial planes, and blame it on the towelheads; then we'll just blow up the buildings ourselves to make sure they actually fall down.

RUMSFELD: Right! And we'll make sure that some of the hijackers are agents of Saddam Hussein! That way we'll have no problem getting the public to buy the invasion.

CHENEY: No, Dick, we won't.

RUMSFELD: We won't?

CHENEY: No, that's too obvious. We'll make the hijackers Al Qaeda and then just imply a connection to Iraq.

RUMSFELD: But if we're just making up the whole thing, why not just put Saddam's fingerprints on the attack?

CHENEY: (sighing) It just has to be this way, Dick. Ups the ante, as it were. This way, we're not insulated if things go wrong in Iraq. Gives us incentive to get the invasion right the first time around.

BUSH: I'm a total idiot who can barely read, so I'll buy that. But I've got a question. Why do we need to crash planes into the Towers at all? Since everyone knows terrorists already tried to blow up that building complex from the ground up once, why don't we just blow it up like we plan to anyway, and blame the bombs on the terrorists?

RUMSFELD: Mr. President, you don't understand. It's much better to sneak into the buildings ourselves in the days before the attacks, plant the bombs and then make it look like it was exploding planes that brought the buildings down. That way, we involve more people in the plot, stand a much greater chance of being exposed and needlessly complicate everything!

CHENEY: Of course, just toppling the Twin Towers will never be enough. No one would give us the war mandate we need if we just blow up the Towers. Clearly, we also need to shoot a missile at a small corner of the Pentagon to create a mightily underpublicized additional symbol of international terrorism -- and then, obviously, we need to fake a plane crash in the middle of ****ing nowhere in rural Pennsylvania.

RUMSFELD: Yeah, it goes without saying that the level of public outrage will not be sufficient without that crash in the middle of ****ing nowhere.

CHENEY: And the Pentagon crash -- we'll have to do it in broad daylight and say it was a plane, even though it'll really be a cruise missile.

BUSH: Wait, why do we have to use a missile?

CHENEY: Because it's much easier to shoot a missile and say it was a plane. It's not easy to steer a real passenger plane into the Pentagon. Planes are hard to come by.

BUSH: But aren't we using two planes for the Twin Towers?

CHENEY: Mr. President, you're missing the point. With the Pentagon, we use a missile, and say it was a plane.

BUSH: Right, but I'm saying, why don't we just use a plane and say it was a plane? We'll be doing that with the Twin Towers, right?

CHENEY: Right, but in this case, we use a missile. (Throws hands up in frustration) Don, can you help me out here?

RUMSFELD: Mr. President, in Washington, we use a missile because it's sneakier that way. Using an actual plane would be too obvious, even though we'll be doing just that in New York.

BUSH: Oh, OK.

RUMSFELD: The other good thing about saying that it was a passenger jet is that that way, we have to invent a few hundred fictional victims and account for a nonexistent missing crew and plane. It's always better when you leave more cover story to invent, more legwork to do and more possible holes to investigate. Doubt, legwork and possible exposure -- you can't pull off any good conspiracy without them.

BUSH: You guys are brilliant! Because if there's one thing about Americans -- they won't let a president go to war without a damn good reason. How could we ever get the media, the corporate world and our military to endorse an invasion of a secular Iraqi state unless we faked an attack against New York at the hands of a bunch of Saudi religious radicals? Why, they'd never buy it. Look at how hard it was to get us into Vietnam, Iraq the last time, Kosovo?

CHENEY: Like pulling teeth!

RUMSFELD: Well, I'm sold on the idea. Let's call the Joint Chiefs, the FAA, the New York and Washington, D.C., fire departments, Rudy Giuliani, all three networks, the families of a thousand fictional airline victims, MI5, the FBI, FEMA, the NYPD, Larry Eagleburger, Osama bin Laden, Noam Chomsky and the fifty thousand other people we'll need to pull this off. There isn't a moment to lose!

BUSH: Don't forget to call all of those Wall Street hotshots who donated $100 million to our last campaign. They'll be thrilled to know that we'll be targeting them for execution as part of our thousand-tentacled modern-day bonehead Reichstag scheme! After all, if we're going to make martyrs -- why not make them out of our campaign paymasters? ****, didn't the Merrill Lynch guys say they needed a refurbishing in their New York offices?

RUMSFELD: Oh, they'll get a refurbishing, all right. Just in time for the "Big Wedding"!

ALL THREE: (cackling) Mwah-hah-hah!

[s1k3sT]

Probably because the people who believe these nonsensical conspiracy theories are usually completely nuts, and willfully reject all facts that don't match their preconceptions. It's one thing to go "hey that Bush guy is a ****ing *******, and I wouldn't be surprised if he pulled a stunt like this". It's another to go from that to "Bush dunnit!"

Considering the fact that I think Bush is a ****ing ******* and a disgrace to humanity, what kool-aid have I been drinking, exactly? If there's anyone who would be open to any dirt you can dig up on Bush, it would be me.

But, you see, I have this tendency to actually look up the facts. Or if I fail to look up the facts and someone else schools me on the facts, I will have no choice but to accept them.

Take it from someone who would love to blame Bush directly for 9/11: 9/11 Truthers are insane.

Wanting the truth is insane?!

I could care less about Bush, all of them are puppets imo.

The koolaid you are drinking is the stuff that has you thinking you aren't a conspiracy theorist. You are obviously a conspiracy theorist if you believe the official story, why is it that I'm called a conspiracy theorist for NOT believing the official conspiracy theory?! Don't worry though, we are all conspiracy theorists and anyone that thinks they aren't isn't thinking clearly.

[PreKe]

I just think it's very 1984 like to call someone a conspiracy theorist when they are pointing out that they don't believe a certain conspiracy theory, and that worries me!

9/11 Truthers are conspiracy theorists because they believe in crazy conspiracy theories. It's the definition of the damn word.

LOL, when did I say to not reply? I'm just trying to understand why I'm labeled a conspiracy theorist for saying I don't believe a certain conspiracy theory (the official explanation for 9/11).

Because by saying this you are showing that you will reject all facts that don't match your predetermined position. It's like tobacco deniers, creationists, flat earthers, and AGW deniers.

I agree, but we need to be careful how we break the news to them. Saying they lack common sense doesn't help the matter, it wont help "wake them up". We need to be understanding, after all we were all there at one point. Just show them the reasons why you believe what you do, try not to insult their intelligence. If they refuse to look at your information simply because it's conspiracy theory explain to them that the official explanation is a conspiracy theory as well. If they still refuse to look at your information then it probably is safe to say they lack common sense, and they are willfully ignorant.

There's nothing to "wake up" from. I have heard all the insane claims by Truthers, and they are all complete BS if you actually bother to look at the facts. It's not that we refuse to look at the "information". It's that there is a complete lack of information from Truthers. All there is, is a bunch of crazy claims based on lies, deception and logical fallacies.

Wanting the truth is insane?!

No, but truthers don't want the truth. Truthers want to distort the truth in order to support their crazy and indefensible fantasies.

The koolaid you are drinking is the stuff that has you thinking you aren't a conspiracy theorist. You are obviously a conspiracy theorist if you believe the official story, why is it that I'm called a conspiracy theorist for NOT believing the official conspiracy theory?! Don't worry though, we are all conspiracy theorists and anyone that thinks they aren't isn't thinking clearly.

Your definition of "conspiracy theory" is wrong, just like all other claims by Truthers are wrong.

[Howling Wind]

The fact that planes can't collapse buildings should be enough to turn heads. Or that you can't make cellphone calls from as high in the air as those planes were. Or that there was no debre from a plane in pennsylvania. I mean seriously, all those are red flags that shouldn't be overlooked.

Forget what the truthers say. Its about facts.

[Green_Eye]

LOL, drop the defense mechanisms for a second. No one has offered an alternative theory, just mentioned that we don't believe the official conspiracy theory. Lets say we thought we were onto something important and we had to share it to save humanity, why is that such a bad thing?! I personally wish everyone would save themselves, because I believe that is the only way to be saved, but I know there is no magical phrase I can type here to "wake someone up", so instead I just try offering a differing point of view. Want to know how to save yourself? Do what Howling Wind suggested, do the research! There are no silver bullets in life, if we want knowledge we need to work to achieve that knowledge.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/f67q6272583h86n4/

There was no defense mechanism. This is just how I type. I respect your right to an opinion but that is all that it is, an opinion, you said it yourself that everything about this issue is theoretical so any form of research done will aide in forming yet another conspiracy theory on the matter. You need to understand that you are not the bearer of all that is true and you do not need to save people or wake them up. What you believe is no more valid then what I believe or what the next Tom, Dick and Harry believe. I do not need to research this subject any more then I already have and I have my own opinions on what went down that day. Difference is I am not as vocal about it because I feel that it is utterly pointless to dwell on it. We will have to agree to disagree I guess.

for your information I'm female. Planes don't collapse buildings. End of discussion. Do the rest of the research.

Honest mistake (Y)

[Ironman273]

I'll try to use logic, although I have a feeling you won't accept it, but since I'm waiting for an install to finish...

There is the stated story of what happened. It's out there. Google it. Virtually everyone agrees that this is what happened on that day. There are a few people out there that think that "official" story is a lie to cover something else up. That's the conspiracy referred to. It's a theory because it's an idea that is unproven. Therefore you suffer from believing in a conspiracy theory. Now, you will twist words for no other reason than obfuscation. See, words are invented to mean things. When an idea is widely referred to by a word or phrase, it takes on that meaning. You're like a guy that would throw a spastic fit if I asked you to grab my Coke from the counter when IT WAS ACTUALLY A PEPSI!!! I meant my drink on the counter, you know I meant my drink on the counter yet you still choose to create confusion where there should be none. You believe in a conspiracy theory. The rest of us believe in the facts of a terrorist conspiracy that was followed through and became a terrorist act.