It's not a conspiracy

[hdood]

Wow, you sure have a way of taking stuff out of context, but you do know we are ina forum, and people can actually read what I write, so they can tell when youre just trolling......

I'm sorry, what? Which part of what I said are you disputing? You come here making claims, do you really not expect to be confronted? Is this new to you? I'm certainly not trolling.

I said trust me about the demo crews

Why should I? Actual demolition crews would consider it a nightmare, considering that it leveled the whole area and threw debris over much of Manhattan. It was not "controlled" at all.

I like how you posted a government article about something against the government.

What do you mean? It's a NIST report, written by actual scientists. Some independent, some government employees, none part of Bush's inner circle. You don't get to discount it as a lies without showing in specific detail how it is wrong.

too funny man, too funny.

How about you actually respond to my points? I know why you won't. It's because you were caught with your pants down. You thought you could do a hit and run post without being confronted. Now that you've been confronted, you don't know what to do, because you don't actually know anything about the subject.

[hdood]

Gravity pulls down yes, but if one side of the building "melted" of course it would fall to that side

The only way the top could have fallen to the side is if the structure below it was capable of supporting the load as it pivoted and rolled over. This was not the case, as I've already shown several times. The lower part could not support the load, which made it the path of least resistance.

EDIT - What about bush saying he watched the first plane hit the first tower as it happened, yet the video did not surface till the next day ?

Uh, he misspoke? It's something humans do from time to time.

[shakey]

I'm sorry, what? Which part of what I said are you disputing? You come here making claims, do you really not expect to be confronted? Is this new to you? I'm certainly not trolling.

Why should I? Actual demolition crews would consider it a nightmare, considering that it leveled the whole area and threw debris over much of Manhattan. It was not "controlled" at all.

What do you mean? It's a NIST report, written by actual scientists. Some independent, some government employees, none part of Bush's inner circle. You don't get to discount it as a lies without showing in specific detail how it is wrong.

How about you actually respond to my points? I know why you won't. It's because you were caught with your pants down. You thought you could do a hit and run post without being confronted. Now that you've been confronted, you don't know what to do, because you don't actually know anything about the subject.

Here, I'll pull a you.

Government is too stupid to ever do anything. I mean, they didn't ever totally change another countries regime by helping terrorist and other nations over throw such governments with attacks and under handed moves..... never ever ever could they do something like that, they are too stupid, government too stupid to trick and do bad things to anyone..... really, before you go spouting such nonsense, visit planet earth. Ill be glad to have a discussion with you here.

I read the report, It had some people in government agencies doing it, it also had some people from FOX News... so i will definitely trust it as being fair and balanced.......

I responded and even researched what you said, but you apparently can not open your mind to anything that I discuss. Like I said, come to earth man, and we can do this. but until you open your mind and deny that our government is like some special ed kid, you and I will never have a discussion/debate about anything meaningful.

[Phenom II]

I guess even with video / eye witness proof, the president himself admitting he knew about it, all the facts in the world, there will still be some people who walk around with their eyes shut

Me personally, I have my eyes wide open

I think its like parents, even when the police, courts, witnesses, video, everything is there in their faces, they still say "Oh no.. My Johnny didn't kill him, he's a good boy"

[hdood]

Shakey, you seem to believe that the government could seriously pull of the most complicated conspiracy theory of all time, one that involves thousands and thousands of people (most of which have no connection to the Bush government and nothing to gain by being part of the conspiracy.) I don't. Despite this, you actually could respond to my points, and I certainly am open to what others have to say, as long as they actually stay on topic.

[Mr. Gibs]

Government is too stupid to ever do anything. I mean, they didn't ever totally change another countries regime by helping terrorist and other nations over throw such governments with attacks and under handed moves..... never ever ever could they do something like that, they are too stupid, government too stupid to trick and do bad things to anyone..... really, before you go spouting such nonsense, visit planet earth. Ill be glad to have a discussion with you here.

It is completely illogical that they could have pulled this off as I've already pointed out numerous times. But since people fail to read I'm going to copy and paste it once again:

1. Get explosives into building without people noticing.

2. Kill / Pay off anyone who does .

3. Pay off muslims to get on board planes

4. Muslims hijack plane

5. Planes crash into building

6. Bombs set off at the exact right time

7. Use CGI to make bomb explosions look more like plane crashes

8. Spend millions of dollars funding reports into incident.

And all that happened in just over 8 months. Not to mention if anything that gone wrong, say someone noticed the explosives, took pictures and announced it before you got to them, the muslims couldn't get on the plane, Bin Laden claims it was America etc Your entire plan would have gone to waste and the entire administration would be facing high treason charges.

Of course maybe they weren't any Muslims on board the plane. So maybe the Pilots were paid off, phone calls were faked, tsa footage was faked, airline tickets were faked.

Not to mention all the hundreds of independent reports done by leading experts that all came to the conclusion the plane did this. Nope instead you want me to believe you? I'm sorry until one of you truthers comes up with credible evidence using credible software or models or even builds the 2 buildings the exact same way they were and crashes 2 planes into them, I'm not going to believe your attention seeking bull****.

the president himself admitting he knew about it

The government knew about Pearl Harbor too. Maybe that was a massive conspiracy as well.

Protip. Sometimes information you obtain is so ridiculous that it makes sense to put it aside. Nobody dreamed the Japanese would pull of pearl harbor, yet they did. Nobody dreamed terrorists could do this, yet they did.

What precautions did you want the government to take? Fire SAMs at the plane? Deploy fighters? You theorists would still be around except this time claiming their was a conspiracy to shoot down the planes so America could go to war.

[Phenom II]

I don't think it is a very complicated conspiracy theory

It takes a room full of powerful people to agree to hire people to wire up a building, crash a couple of planes into it, and at the right time press the buttons.

People will do anything for the right price.

[Mr. Gibs]

I don't think it is a very complicated conspiracy theory

It takes a room full of powerful people to agree to hire people to wire up a building, crash a couple of planes into it, and at the right time press the buttons.

People will do anything for the right price.

And at the same time nobody notices it happenning, the thousands of pounds of explosives hooked up to miles and miles worth of detonator cable?

You can't wire up a building for a controlled demolition overnight. Let alone the fact pay of people to go crash planes into buildings and hope they succeed in doing so.

I mean what if the terrorists failed huh and someone noticed the detonators? That's right everyone involved gets a high treason charge and will probably be killed on the way to court.

Nor does it explain reports by leading experts claiming the plane did this. Maybe all those people were paid off too.

[shakey]

It is completely illogical that they could have pulled this off as I've already pointed out numerous times. But since people fail to read I'm going to copy and paste it once again:

Of course maybe they weren't any Muslims on board the plane. So maybe the Pilots were paid off, phone calls were faked, tsa footage was faked, airline tickets were faked.

Not to mention all the hundreds of independent reports done by leading experts that all came to the conclusion the plane did this. Nope instead you want me to believe you? I'm sorry until one of you truthers comes up with credible evidence using credible software or models or even builds the 2 buildings the exact same way they were and crashes 2 planes into them, I'm not going to believe your attention seeking bull****.

Do I really have to pull out a history lesson for you 2 about America and what they have already done to tons of other countries and their leaders? Seriously, how blind are you? You think our government is just the president and the people you see on tv, that's funny. Apparently, you sight is too limited to view what our government is comprised of, how the real CIA FBI and other secret service agencies do their jobs, and what our country has horribly done to others. I'm done with this, as I do not feel like having to teach people about our history time and time again. Learn america's dirty history yourself. Open your own damn eyes for once lol.

Please, show me the hundreds of independent reports that did studies on 9/11 towers that fell. Amazing how the biggest group of all that tried to do a study, has come out to say that they were barred by the government on so many things that they were unable to get accurate answers...... but again, believe what FOX news tells you, they are fair and balanced....

[MikeChipshop Member]

Me haz headhurt... :s :s

[s1k3sT]

Rising opinion my ass. Most people don't even care about 9/11, its something that happenned in the past that should be left there. The only people that keep bringing it up are you 9/11 truthers.

*Removed ad hominem attacks with no substance.*

You are right, 9/11 doesn't matter! We've only lost most of our rights and liberties since 9/11 no big deal, hell, I say we should give away the rest of our liberty right now! After all is doesn't matter, right?!

[Phenom II]

Im not 100% convinced it was terrorists (Not the type we have been made to believe anyway)

There are again, eye witness accounts that is was NOT a passenger airline

[shakey]

And at the same time nobody notices it happenning, the thousands of pounds of explosives hooked up to miles and miles worth of detonator cable?

You can't wire up a building for a controlled demolition overnight. Let alone the fact pay of people to go crash planes into buildings and hope they succeed in doing so.

I mean what if the terrorists failed huh and someone noticed the detonators? That's right everyone involved gets a high treason charge and will probably be killed on the way to court.

So all the people who have come out against is is NOBODY? People who worked in the WTC buildings and said they saw crews laying cables all throughout the buildings a month prior are NOTHING? I like that, your limited view shows you just what you want to see huh?

I love how they claim there is nothing, but there is plenty to go against. They just choose to not view and see it, then claim there is nothing there. You are the easiest pawn for the government.

You think everyone in germany hated jews? you think they all wanted them in camps? Would you like to make a guess on how many germans were actually clueless about what was happening, even with everything going on around them?

[hdood]

Im not 100% convinced it was terrorists (Not the type we have been made to believe anyway)

There are again, eye witness accounts that is was NOT a passenger airline

So hey, who was responsible for murdering the hundreds of passengers and crews that were supposed to be on the passenger jets that weren't used in the attack? Where did the planes go? Also, why would the airline want to be in on it? Do you see that you've already exceeded just a few people planting obscene amounts of explosives in the WTC buildings?

[Mr. Gibs]

Do I really have to pull out a history lesson for you 2 about America and what they have already done to tons of other countries and their leaders? Seriously, how blind are you? You think our government is just the president and the people you see on tv, that's funny. Apparently, you sight is too limited to view what our government is comprised of, how the real CIA FBI and other secret service agencies do their jobs, and what our country has horribly done to others. I'm done with this, as I do not feel like having to teach people about our history time and time again. Learn america's dirty history yourself. Open your own damn eyes for once lol.

Doing something to other countries and their leaders is one thing. Nobody is going to go to jail for it. The best that could happen is the American people are going to condemn it or the CIA agents involved would go to jail and be killed in w/e foreign country they were in.

Blowing up 3 buildings, killling thousands of your own citizens will get you killed in your very own country. Like I've already pointed out several times now, something you guys haven't been able to give me answers to and instead deflect the arguement to "oh but our government did this to another country in the past", everything had to go to plan. If one thing failed, and in all likelyhood it would have, the Bush Administration would be facing some serious Jailtime and more than likely will be killed before they even got to jail.

Please, show me the hundreds of independent reports that did studies on 9/11 towers that fell. Amazing how the biggest group of all that tried to do a study, has come out to say that they were barred by the government on so many things that they were unable to get accurate answers...... but again, believe what FOX news tells you, they are fair and balanced....

Go look it up. One of the biggest was done by National Geographic with involved using the best computer simulations available.

None of you theorists have managed to give any of us credible proof. I mean the best I've seen in this thread so far was a youtube video. But still you guys expect us to do it for you? Please.

So all the people who have come out against is is NOBODY? People who worked in the WTC buildings and said they saw crews laying cables all throughout the buildings a month prior are NOTHING?

People are attention ######? I mean in the very below this a senior Nasa "Astronaut" Claimed he saw aliens on board the space shuttle. He even had a concept art of it made, something that looked like a 5 year old cartoon book.

And you do understand buildings have millions of lines worth of cables in it right? For all you know they were repairing the fiber optics.

[Phenom II]

We are going from who's source that there was passenger jets ? The Media ?

[s1k3sT]

s1k3sT: Claims thermite was used/links to a fake non-scientific un-peer reviewed paper/claims the building collapsed in "free fall"

The rest of Neowin: Points out his errors.

s1k3st: Makes an ad hominem attack, rants about conspiracies.

The rest of Neowin: *sighs*

s1k3st: *repeats*

/thread.

More like this:

Neowin: claims the the planes caused the collapse

me: points out your errors

neowin: make ad hominem attack, rants about conspiracies

me: sigh

neowin: repeats

/thread

Sorry to the members of neowin that I unfairly lumped together with the deniers. I know some of you actually know how to think for yourselves enough to see through the conspiracy theories, hell I'm surprised myself at how many people admitted in the last page that they didn't believe the official conspiracy theory. Sorry to those that actually know how to think critically, the term neowin was just the easiest thing I could think of.

[hdood]

We are going from who's source that there was passenger jets ? The Media ?

Was that a response to me? Are you saying the planes never existed? Why would the airline lie? Were the passengers fictitious? Are the thousands of friends and family of the supposedly deceased in on it, then? How did they manage that?

[shakey]

Doing something to other countries and their leaders is one thing. Nobody is going to go to jail for it. The best that could happen is the American people are going to condemn it or the CIA agents involved would go to jail and be killed in w/e foreign country they were in.

Blowing up 3 buildings, killling thousands of your own citizens will get you killed in your very own country. Like I've already pointed out several times now, something you guys haven't been able to give me answers to and instead deflect the arguement to "oh but our government did this to another country in the past", everything had to go to plan. If one thing failed, and in all likelyhood it would have, the Bush Administration would be facing some serious Jailtime and more than likely will be killed before they even got to jail.

Go look it up. One of the biggest was done by National Geographic with involved using the best computer simulations available.

None of you theorists have managed to give any of us credible proof. I mean the best I've seen in this thread so far was a youtube video. But still you guys expect us to do it for you? Please.

People are attention ######? I mean in the very below this a senior Nasa "Astronaut" Claimed he saw aliens on board the space shuttle. He even had a concept art of it made, something that looked like a 5 year old cartoon book.

And you do understand buildings have millions of lines worth of cables in it right? For all you know they were repairing the fiber optics.

Wow, couldn't be more hypocritical if you tried huh?

[hdood]

More like this:

Neowin: claims the the planes caused the collapse

me: points out your errors

Really? Where did you point out my errors? Oh right, you didn't. You're just pretending you did to make yourself feel better.

[s1k3sT]

I mean the best I've seen in this thread so far was a youtube video.

That's right, ignore the peer reviewed scientific evidence. I wouldn't expect anything else from the people that believe the official conspiracy theory...

[Mr. Gibs]

We are going from who's source that there was passenger jets ? The Media ?

Airline tickets. Missing planes. Passengers killed. Phone calls from the plane. TSA footage at the airport. Airline logs of said planes. Departure records.

Airline's aren't just made up overnight. Every single repair, flight, takeoff/landing is documented for auditing purposes. You think the government faked all of that?

That's right, ignore the peer reviewed scientific evidence. I wouldn't expect anything else from the people that believe the official conspiracy theory...

You linked me one pdf that I already debunked several times over. I already pointed out to you how those substances can be formed in those very same configurations. But instead of finding me more proof you keep linking the same article and saying its not possible. Find me more and then I'll see.

Wow, couldn't be more hypocritical if you tried huh?

And here we go again. You can't find anything wrong with what I said, so lets resort to personal attacks and one liners.

Suprise Suprise.

Anyways I'm done with this thread and you ****ing retards. Enjoy your conspiracy theories and where they lead you life.

[s1k3sT]

Really? Where did you point out my errors? Oh right, you didn't. You're just pretending you did to make yourself feel better.

Really? How did the thermite end up at the wtcs then? Go on ignoring this error among the many other errors in the official conspiracy theory, we wouldn't expect anything else...

[hdood]

Really? How did the thermite end up at the wtcs then? Go on ignoring this error among the many other errors in the official conspiracy theory, we wouldn't expect anything else...

Sorry, no. You said you have pointed out my errors. That was a specific claim. Where have you done this? I can't find it. In fact, you have been extremely reluctant to respond to me at all. Go on, point out the errors in the below right now:

The planes hit, dislodged fire-proofing (which was already shoddy), damaged some columns, and then spread jet fuel over several floors which set all the interior on fire (which can actually reach over 1800 degrees). Those fires then gradually weakened the steel floors until they pulled the outside wall columns far enough in to fail. At that point they fell, and the maths shows that the floors below could handle at most six floors falling on them. Since more than that fell, the whole building came crumbling down. [...]

Anyway, the buildings did not free fall. If it was slowed as much as a millisecond, it did not fall at free fall speed. Near free fall would be a more correct term (although much of the core remained standing for 20 seconds after the floors and perimeter columns collapsed). "Free fall" is just an irrelevant conspiracy buzzword here. I don't know why people think the lower part of the building was an issue. It simply wasn't designed to handle the massive dynamic load (the top floors had downward momentum). It was only designed to handle the static load. I already explained how much the floors below could handle:

The average load in the WTC was 80 pounds per square feet (although higher for the mechanical floors). Each floor was 31,000 square feet. 80*31,000=2.5 million. Divide that by the amount the intact floors below could handle, and you get 29m/2.5m=11.6. In other words, they could have supported the static load of about 11 floors. Since the load was dynamic, divide it by the dynamic amplification factor, and you get 11.6/2=5.8. At most six floors.

There were more floors than that in the initial collapse. As the collapse progressed, more and more mass was added, further increasing the downward momentum.

People here claim the rest of the building should have substantially slowed or stopped the collapse, but the math simply does not appear to support this. When it comes to something like this, you can't just go with what you "think" should happen.

[iamawesomewicked]

Really? How did the thermite end up at the wtcs then? Go on ignoring this error among the many other errors in the official conspiracy theory, we wouldn't expect anything else...

What thermite?