It's not a conspiracy

[hdood]

Why did Bush Jr. lie about seeing the first plane crash on tv the day it happened?! The tape of the first plane crash didn't surface until the next day...

You're right. It was a lie. Humans NEVER misspeak. I didn't even know such a concept existed until I heard a "debunker" mention it! LOL! The things they expect us to believe! You and me though, we know the truth!

Keep up the good work. These are the important things that should be focused on.

Just a coincidence that Marvin Bush, George W's brother, was the director of Securecom which was in charge of the security at the wtc, united airlines, and dulles airport.

No, he wasn't. He was on the board, and left in 2000. Benjamin and Michael Chertoff aren't cousins and don't even know each other (yeah, I know, you've got super-secret inside information!) Most of your other stuff is equally wrong, as is your understanding of physics. You just make stuff up as you go along. I bet Vanity Fair is owned by the Zionist Israeli government. Was it the Bilderbergers that secretly changed the dictionary definition of theory from whatever you think it's supposed to mean to "an opinion or idea, not necessarily based on reasoning?" Probably.

Granted, all these things do amuse me, but they have no basis in reality.

[Jim K Global Moderator]

We don't even have to debunk the article itself, popular mechanics debunked themselves. Here's how:

Cathleen Black the president of Hearst Magazines, who is married to a former member of the CIA and DOD, replaced much of the staff, including the long time editor and chief in staff. One of the new members of the staff is Benjamin Chertoff. Benjamin Chertoff is the self proclaimed "senior researcher" for the 2005 article about 9/11 on which it's 2009 book is based upon. Benjamin Chertoff is the cousin of the secretary of Homeland Security, Michael Chertoff. This isn't related, not directly, but Michael Chertoff was a coauthor of the patriot act.

LOL, that's because it's been redefined already! Can you honestly not see what I'm saying, or are you trolling me?

Oh BTW, yes it is the path of greatest resistance.

/sigh

Conspiracy theorists have an answer to that, too. They assert that Benjamin Chertoff, a researcher on the project, is a cousin of homeland security chief Michael Chertoff. He's not, though he may be distantly related. "No one in my family has ever met anyone related to Michael Chertoff," he says.

Source--> http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/060903/11conspiracy_2.htm

Apparently they are not related...at least not recently. However, we are all related at some point in the history of mankind.

So...debunk what Popular Mechanics wrote and not some rumor that Benjamin and Michael are related. If they are related...produce the evidence to support it. Having the same last name doesn't count.

Funny that you believe the greatest resistance is going down...guess gravity is backwards. :laugh:

By the way, since we are just throwing out random crap...here is one for you.

I guess Seth McFarlane was in on the 9/11...or knew about it before hand. Maybe you could add it to your pathetic research. :)

It did happen. I was giving a lecture in Rhode Island at my old college the night before and I was booked on Flight 11. It was a combination of being hung-over the next day and my travel agent writing down the wrong time. She wrote down 8:15 instead of 7:45 so I got there about 7:30 and they said that they had just closed the gates, you're too late. And that was the first flight that hit.

Source--> http://www.mania.com/10-questions-family-guys-seth-mcfarlane-part-two_article_39625.html

[hdood]

I realized s1k3sT probably didn't get the Vanity Fair reference, so here's the article in question for him to read.

Once he's done that, he can tell us who owns Vanity Fair and how that makes the article irrelevant and debunked.

[s1k3sT]

Source--> http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/060903/11conspiracy_2.htm

Apparently they are not related...at least not recently. However, we are related at some point the history of mankind.

So...debunk what Popular Mechanics wrote and not some rumor that Benjamin and Michael are related. If they are related...produce the evidence to support it. Having the same last name doesn't count.

Funny that you believe the greatest resistance is going down...guess gravity is backwards. :laugh:

If they were cousins you expect them to admit it?! LOL...

Benjamin's mother first said "Yes, of course, they are cousins." and later said that they were cousins, but distant.

Funny, there was this thing called the building, it was in the way of the collapse. Therefore, obviously not counting gravity, it WAS the path of greatest resistance, as opposed to falling sideways.

[hdood]

How can something fall sideways? Are you in the same universe as us?

[s1k3sT]

You're right. It was a lie. Humans NEVER misspeak. I didn't even know such a concept existed until I heard a "debunker" mention it! LOL! The things they expect us to believe! You and me though, we know the truth!

Keep up the good work. These are the important things that should be focused on.

No, he wasn't. He was on the board, and left in 2000. Benjamin and Michael Chertoff aren't cousins and don't even know each other (yeah, I know, you've got super-secret inside information!) Most of your other stuff is equally wrong, as is your understanding of physics. You just make stuff up as you go along. I bet Vanity Fair is owned by the Zionist Israeli government. Was it the Bilderbergers that secretly changed the dictionary definition of theory from whatever you think it's supposed to mean to "an opinion or idea, not necessarily based on reasoning?" Probably.

Granted, all these things do amuse me, but they have no basis in reality.

So you don't have to do any research because you know everything without doing the research?! LOL, sounds like you are the one with super-secret inside information...

Must be nice to not look into anything that doesn't fit your idea of how the world works.

How can something fall sideways? Are you in the same universe as us?

Are you in the same universe?! Can't fall sideways, huh?! What?! Are you serious?! Explain to me how the building can't fall sideways. For the building to have fallen like they did the damage would have had to be about the same symetrically all around the whole building, all the supports had to give out at the same exact time for the collapse to happen like it did. One small difference in the timings of the structural collapse and the top of the building would have fallen sideways. This is one of my biggest problems with the official conspiracy theory, the buildings didn't get hit from multiple planes causing symmetrical damage, they got hit by one apiece. Since they only got hit by one plane per building we know it was almost impossible for the damage to be symmetrical. How does asymmetrical damage cause a symmetrical collapse?!

[hdood]

Are you in the same universe?! Can't fall sideways, huh?! What?! Are you serious?!

Yes, it's a physical impossibility for something to fall sideways.

For the building to have fallen like they did the damage would have had to be about the same symetrically all around the whole building, all the supports had to give out at the same exact time for the collapse to happen like it did.

What? Are you talking about the same 9/11 as the rest of us?

Doesn't look that symmetrical to me.

One small difference in the timings of the structural collapse and the top of the building would have fallen sideways.

No... In order for it to topple over (not fall sideways, an impossibility), there would have to be a supporting structure beneath it as it pivoted. This structure would have to remain for the entire duration of the process. Such a structure did not exist, which means it started moving downward instead. Path of least resistance (unless the top was fitted with an anti-gravity device and thrusters, in which case your theory could work.)

[Jim K Global Moderator]

If they were cousins you expect them to admit it?! LOL...

Benjamin's mother first said "Yes, of course, they are cousins." and later said that they were cousins, but distant.

Funny, there was this thing called the building, it was in the way of the collapse. Therefore, obviously not counting gravity, it WAS the path of greatest resistance, as opposed to falling sideways.

Gravity didn't exist? HAHA. :rofl:

Furthermore...

As for what my mom said: When Chertoff was nominated to be head of homeland security it was the first I'd heard of him, and the same for my family (and, FYI, we'd already sent the 9/11 issue to the press by then!). My dad and I thought there might be some distant relation. When Chris Bollyn called and asked my mom if there was a relation (introducing himself as only "Chris"), she said "they might be distant cousins." Like much in the conspiracy world, this was taken WAY out of context. (Another case in point: Bollyn called me earlier and asked "Were you the senior researcher on the story?" I said, "I guess so," -- that's not a title I have ever used, nor is it at all common in magazine journalism, but I was the research editor at the time, so it kinda made sense.) Nonetheless, I was one of 9 reporters on the story, not counting editors, photo researchers, photo editors, copy editors, layout designers, production managers, fact-checkers, etc., etc., etc. who worked on this story.

Source--> http://911myths.com/html/benjamin_chertoff.html

So...provide some proof that they had a beer together...or just simply...knew each other. I guess you hang out with your cousin...15 times removed. (sarcasm)

Once again...try to debunk one thing PopMech wrote. I'm guessing you can't which is why you are relying on a slight, yet unlikely, possibility that Benjamin and Michael knew each other.

[s1k3sT]

Yes, it's a physical impossibility for something to fall sideways.

What? Are you talking about the same 9/11 as the rest of us?

Doesn't look that symmetrical to me.

No... In order for it to topple over (not fall sideways, an impossibility), there would have to be a supporting structure beneath it as it pivoted. This structure would have to remain for the entire duration of the process. Such a structure did not exist, which means it started moving downward instead. Path of least resistance (unless the top was fitted with an anti-gravity device and thrusters, in which case your theory could work.)

Fine, you've proved you are more pedantic than me, way to go.

You say yourself that a supporting structure did not exist, is that because of the controlled demolition? How else did the structure get destroyed, in the official conspiracy theory, before the top part smashed through it? If it was already gone that means controlled demolition, if it was still there but yet the top fell straight through it that means controlled demolition also.

I like the picture you posted, how does that topple like that but then not continue doing so? It's almost like it turned into powder...

Gravity didn't exist? HAHA. :rofl:

Never said that, but there was (supposedly) still a supporting structure to support the building that should have provided resistance, as opposed to the open air outside the building, therefore the building fell through the path of greatest resistance.

Once again...try to debunk one thing PopMech wrote. I'm guessing you can't which is why you are relying on a slight, yet unlikely, possibility that Benjamin and Michael knew each other.

That's not the only thing fishy, you ignored the rest. What about Cathleen Black's cia connections?

[hdood]

You say yourself that a supporting structure did not exist, is that because of the controlled demolition? How else did the structure get destroyed, in the official conspiracy theory, before the top part smashed through it?

It was destroyed as the mass of the top part hit it.

An intact floor could support at most about 29 million pounds. Each floor had an average load of 80 pounds per square feet (more for the mechanical floors), multiply that by the size of each floor (3,000 sq ft) you get 2.5 million. 29m/2.5m then gets you 11.6 floors. Since the load was dynamic (remember that the falling mass had downward momentum which increased with each new floor that joined the falling mass), the dynamic amplification factor comes into play, which gives you a total of 11.6/2=5.8 falling floors that could be supported. In reality it was probably less than that, but even with those ideal numbers, there were still more than six floors on the top part.

I like the picture you posted, how does that topple like that but then not continue doing so? It's almost like it turned into powder...

Because the supporting structure beneath it could not support the load. In order to pivot, you need something to pivot on. Do you not understand this?

[s1k3sT]

It was destroyed as the mass of the top part hit it.

An intact floor could support at most about 29 million pounds. Each floor had an average load of 80 pounds per square feet (more for the mechanical floors), multiply that by the size of each floor (3,000 sq ft) you get 2.5 million. 29m/2.5m then gets you 11.6 floors. Since the load was dynamic (remember that the falling mass had downward momentum which increased with each new floor that joined the falling mass), the dynamic amplification factor comes into play, which gives you a total of 11.6/2=5.8 falling floors that could be supported. In reality it was probably less than that, but even with those ideal numbers, there were still more than six floors on the top part.

Because the supporting structure beneath it could not support the load. In order to pivot, you need something to pivot on. Do you not understand this?

Like a controlled demolition couldn't have caused that pivot? Please...

After all, thermite has never been used for controlled demolitions officially, they might have not planned it the best.

[Solid Knight]

You can't have a controlled demolition if you slam a jet into it. It'd be like setting up the Mouse Trap board then throwing a bowling ball at it and expecting it to still work perfectly. Also, wouldn't the burning jet fuel prematurely set off some of the explosives? Wouldn't they instantly explode? Again, making it uncontrolled. So they just rigged the building with explosives and hoped to god that these planes hit the right spot and that the explosives would go off in the right order even after being rammed by an airliner. They also hoped that the hijackers succeeded because if they failed it'd be hard to explain a building that was still standing while full of explosives.

If it was planned it was so likely to fail nobody would have bothered. I mean, there are a billion safer ways to make us go to war. Americans would be just as outraged if a dozen planes were flown into the ground. That'd be a much easier fake terrorist plot. Americans would be just as outraged if one airliner was flown into the Superbowl stadium. That would have resulted in more casualties and be highly televised. It would have been much easier to pull off as well.

[hdood]

Like a controlled demolition couldn't have caused that pivot? Please...

I don't understand what you are trying to say. Yes, you probably could have replicated the damage caused by the plane impact and fires with explosives and other means, but so? Ockham's razor.

[Jim K Global Moderator]

That's not the only thing fishy, you ignored the rest. What about Cathleen Black's cia connections?

ok...her husband being in the CIA is relevant...how? What about Seth MacFarlane missing the flight?

Once again...will you debunk anything in the PopMech report? I guess not...because you can't!

[Solid Knight]

I know a guy who works for the CIA as a desktop repair technician. Guess how much pull he has?

[Jim K Global Moderator]

I know a guy who works for the CIA as a desktop repair technician. Guess how much pull he has?

yea...I'm medical in the Air Force. Guess how much I know about that spacecraft we just launched. :laugh:

[hdood]

I know several places where you could easily pull with a CIA ID card.

[s1k3sT]

ok...her husband being in the CIA is relevant...how? What about Seth MacFarlane missing the flight?

Once again...will you debunk anything in the PopMech report? I guess not...because you can't!

Seth MacFarlane doesn't run the company putting out a supposedly unbiased report on 9/11.

Everything that popular mechanics has theorized has been debunked multiple times, and they debunked themselves by acting unbiased when they obviously are biased. If you want to find info debunking popular mechanics theories all you have to do it look, it's everywhere.

[Solid Knight]

Seth MacFarlane doesn't run the company putting out a supposedly unbiased report on 9/11.

Everything that popular mechanics has theorized has been debunked multiple times, and they debunked themselves by acting unbiased when they obviously are biased. If you want to find info debunking popular mechanics all you have to do it look, it's everywhere.

Really? And we're supposed to trust your word even when you make claims that contradict the images of the towers collapsing?

[hdood]

Seth MacFarlane doesn't run the company putting out a supposedly unbiased report on 9/11.

Actually, Seth MacFarlane does in fact run NIST. He's also Dick Cheney's half-nephew. This is true because it's on the internet.

[Solid Knight]

Actually, Seth MacFarlane does in fact run NIST. He's also Dick Cheney's half-nephew. This is true because it's on the internet.

Not only that but if you take certain letters from his script you can spell out "I, Seth MacFarlane, am the mastermind behind 9/11".

[s1k3sT]

Really? And we're supposed to trust your word even when you make claims that contradict the images of the towers collapsing?

Did I ever say to trust me?! LOL, I don't believe trusting anyone is a good idea, so I doubt I ever said that. Question everything, only believe what you can prove through your own research.

[Jim K Global Moderator]

Seth MacFarlane doesn't run the company putting out a supposedly unbiased report on 9/11.

Everything that popular mechanics has theorized has been debunked multiple times, and they debunked themselves by acting unbiased when they obviously are biased. If you want to find info debunking popular mechanics all you have to do it look, it's everywhere.

...but someone must have told Seth right and informed him not to get on the plane ... right?

Where is the proof...I seriously do not want to go egg hunting today.

Also, you have proved nothing which shows PopMech was biased.

Edit:

Not only that but if you take certain letters from his script you can spell out "I, Seth MacFarlane, am the mastermind behind 9/11".

ahh...ok. These past 30 or so pages have been cleared up. Seth was behind it...should have known. :alien:

:shifty:

[hdood]

Did I ever say to trust me?! LOL, I don't believe trusting anyone is a good idea, so I doubt I ever said that. Question everything, only believe what you can prove through your own research.

Well, define research. At some point you really do have to trust the word of actual experts, because it's impossible to be an expert on everything. 9/11 spans so many different disciplines.

[s1k3sT]

Well, define research. At some point you really do have to trust the word of actual experts, because it's impossible to be an expert on everything. 9/11 spans so many different disciplines.

I don't believe you have to trust anyone, in fact I think it's a terrible idea. The experts opinions are obviously a good place to start building our own opinions, but being able to form our own opinions is an important skill many people lack. Look into all different experts' opinions but form your own opinions based upon the experts' evidence that make the most sense. Critical thinking is the key, but sadly many people lack the ability to think critically. Too many people get into the mindset of either believing everything or nothing from someone, many times people are only partially right.