dnast Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Yeah, I'm glad they didn't remove Panorama altogether. I've gotten quite used to quickly switching between tab groups with just a shortcut key. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/896934-meet-firefox-401/page/156/#findComment-593611278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Decryptor Veteran Posted January 20, 2011 Veteran Share Posted January 20, 2011 People having problems with DirectWrite, do you have ATI cards? It seems Nvidia and ATI cards render the text differently, Nvidia cards have light sub-pixel colours while ATI cards have very strong colours, to the point where you get a very noticeable rainbow effect with a string of text like "llllllllllllllllllllllll" Edit: And when you're taking screenshots of it, use PNG as the file format, JPEG destroys the colour info on purpose (The human eye can't see it very well, so no point trying hard to save it) unless you change settings in the encoder. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/896934-meet-firefox-401/page/156/#findComment-593611292 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punio4 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I have problems with directwrite, and yes, I'm using an ATI card. The colors are better in the latest nightly. However, I don't see this as a D2D/DirectWrite/Microsoft/GPU problem, because of one fact, and that is that text looks great on IE9 which uses it aswell. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/896934-meet-firefox-401/page/156/#findComment-593612304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
alisalem Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I think sometimes IE9 uses ClearType instead of D2D, so you'd think it's rendering looks better. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/896934-meet-firefox-401/page/156/#findComment-593612980 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperAFK Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 People having problems with DirectWrite, do you have ATI cards? It seems Nvidia and ATI cards render the text differently, Nvidia cards have light sub-pixel colours while ATI cards have very strong colours, to the point where you get a very noticeable rainbow effect with a string of text like "llllllllllllllllllllllll" Edit: And when you're taking screenshots of it, use PNG as the file format, JPEG destroys the colour info on purpose (The human eye can't see it very well, so no point trying hard to save it) unless you change settings in the encoder. I don't see any colors or rainbow effect on my card, to mee the rendering is just way too blurry, especially with the lllllll example you posted. A lot of letters just look blurry/washed out compared to cleartype. You notice in cleartype the rendering looks very consistent, in Directwrite some letters look alright and others look very faint and blurry. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/896934-meet-firefox-401/page/156/#findComment-593613158 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Majesticmerc MVC Posted January 21, 2011 MVC Share Posted January 21, 2011 I don't see any colors or rainbow effect on my card, to mee the rendering is just way too blurry, especially with the lllllll example you posted. A lot of letters just look blurry/washed out compared to cleartype. You notice in cleartype the rendering looks very consistent, in Directwrite some letters look alright and others look very faint and blurry. Yeah that's what I see too. Strange thing is, I don't have that issue at work on the same version of FF4 (which is running on XP). Could be a monitor/cleartype thing. :s Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/896934-meet-firefox-401/page/156/#findComment-593614520 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperAFK Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Yeah that's what I see too. Strange thing is, I don't have that issue at work on the same version of FF4 (which is running on XP). Could be a monitor/cleartype thing. :s That's because xp does not support directwrite Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/896934-meet-firefox-401/page/156/#findComment-593614534 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Decryptor Veteran Posted January 21, 2011 Veteran Share Posted January 21, 2011 I don't see any colors or rainbow effect on my card, to mee the rendering is just way too blurry, especially with the lllllll example you posted. A lot of letters just look blurry/washed out compared to cleartype. ... You notice in cleartype the rendering looks very consistent, in Directwrite some letters look alright and others look very faint and blurry. Yeah, that's the sub-pixel positioning causing that. GDI is designed to render text to CRT monitors (it's from Windows 3), while DirectWrite is designed for LCD displays and as such doesn't have a lot of the limitations GDI does (ClearType is bolted onto GDI, while DW is designed around it) You get more accurate glyph rendering, more accurate inter-character spacing, and more accurate line lengths than you would with GDI (and it's much faster too). Compare this under GDI to DirectWrite, GDI simply can't scale and place the glyphs properly due to it's limitations. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/896934-meet-firefox-401/page/156/#findComment-593614790 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperAFK Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Yeah, that's the sub-pixel positioning causing that. GDI is designed to render text to CRT monitors (it's from Windows 3), while DirectWrite is designed for LCD displays and as such doesn't have a lot of the limitations GDI does (ClearType is bolted onto GDI, while DW is designed around it) You get more accurate glyph rendering, more accurate inter-character spacing, and more accurate line lengths than you would with GDI (and it's much faster too). Compare this under GDI to DirectWrite, GDI simply can't scale and place the glyphs properly due to it's limitations. Well I have and lcd and think it looks like crap, it may "technically" be better but most people seem to share my opinion that it looks pretty awful lol. It does look better at large font sizes, but at normal font sizes it is pretty bad :/ Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/896934-meet-firefox-401/page/156/#findComment-593614956 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis W. Veteran Posted January 21, 2011 Veteran Share Posted January 21, 2011 Compare this under GDI to DirectWrite, GDI simply can't scale and place the glyphs properly due to it's limitations. The rainbow effect is quite visible for Segoe UI: Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/896934-meet-firefox-401/page/156/#findComment-593614960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperAFK Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 The rainbow effect is quite visible for Segoe UI: Yeah just looking at that is hurting my eyes lol. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/896934-meet-firefox-401/page/156/#findComment-593614966 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Decryptor Veteran Posted January 21, 2011 Veteran Share Posted January 21, 2011 The rainbow effect is quite visible for Segoe UI: Let me guess, ATI card? Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/896934-meet-firefox-401/page/156/#findComment-593615022 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis W. Veteran Posted January 21, 2011 Veteran Share Posted January 21, 2011 Let me guess, ATI card? Nope, GeForce 8800 GT. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/896934-meet-firefox-401/page/156/#findComment-593615154 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis W. Veteran Posted January 21, 2011 Veteran Share Posted January 21, 2011 And here's an example from my laptop with Intel HD Graphics (also switched to the onboard discrete GeForce GT 335m and got almost identical results): Clearly there's a contrast difference. edit: The previous screenshot was captured on a machine without SP1, while this one does have SP1. Not sure if there might be a fix inside the service pack with regards to DirectWrite rendering. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/896934-meet-firefox-401/page/156/#findComment-593615210 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Decryptor Veteran Posted January 21, 2011 Veteran Share Posted January 21, 2011 ugh, confusing. I've always gotten the results shown in your second screenshot (pre-SP1 with an 8600GT), and I've only ever seen the results from the first screenshot on ATI cards (even a few Mozilla devs have the same issue). I wonder if it's due to the ClearType settings Windows use. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/896934-meet-firefox-401/page/156/#findComment-593615318 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mattburles Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 The plan is to release beta 10 the week of Jan 24. There will be a beta 11 the week of the 31st and RC to follow soon after. Got this from Mozilla. There are now 85 hard blockers :) Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/896934-meet-firefox-401/page/156/#findComment-593615378 Share on other sites More sharing options...
alisalem Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 This is what the toolbar looks like in Beta 10 pre: Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/896934-meet-firefox-401/page/156/#findComment-593615412 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoapyHamHocks Member Posted January 21, 2011 Member Share Posted January 21, 2011 This is what the toolbar looks like in Beta 10 pre: Same :wacko: 8800GT Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/896934-meet-firefox-401/page/156/#findComment-593615416 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Decryptor Veteran Posted January 21, 2011 Veteran Share Posted January 21, 2011 Yeah, it's Bug 626293. It's because they're now doing the compositing manually (Since D2D/DW refuse to), but they're getting the gamma wrong. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/896934-meet-firefox-401/page/156/#findComment-593615426 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest xiphi Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 The ClearType settings also has an effect on it. I've tuned CT and restarted programs, and have gotten worse/better results depending on how it's tuned. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/896934-meet-firefox-401/page/156/#findComment-593615444 Share on other sites More sharing options...
alisalem Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 This problem is not related to the GPU manufacturer as I have an ATI HD 4890 myself. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/896934-meet-firefox-401/page/156/#findComment-593615446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Majesticmerc MVC Posted January 21, 2011 MVC Share Posted January 21, 2011 That's because xp does not support directwrite Well I guess that'd be why then :p The ClearType settings also has an effect on it. I've tuned CT and restarted programs, and have gotten worse/better results depending on how it's tuned. I wonder if the people having the problem are the ones that have used the ClearType tuner in Win7? Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/896934-meet-firefox-401/page/156/#findComment-593615788 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkburn Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I should point out that |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| is not normal text. I don't think it's surprising that DirectWrite isn't designed around displaying those perfectly. In the previous comparison, iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii was displayed next to it ... and it looked fine. It's still an unlikely collection of characters, but more realistic at least. Of course it's not ideal that |||||||| can look odd, but it's not the end of the world. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/896934-meet-firefox-401/page/156/#findComment-593615854 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusuf M. Veteran Posted January 21, 2011 Veteran Share Posted January 21, 2011 The font rendering for Firefox 4 Beta 9 hurts my eyes. :/ Obi-Wan Kenobi 1 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/896934-meet-firefox-401/page/156/#findComment-593615934 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperAFK Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Well I guess that'd be why then :p I wonder if the people having the problem are the ones that have used the ClearType tuner in Win7? I haven't used CT tuner at all. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/896934-meet-firefox-401/page/156/#findComment-593616296 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts