MineCraft?

[Xilo]

To say he deserves it is just idiocy, I bet you wouldn't be able to manage half the stuff he does in a day with programming a game and starting a business. It takes a lot more than you think and it's obviously something you never tried to do on your own. Before judging what you expect from an individual, try judging how much of his time is actually taken up by what he is doing.

I'm a programmer. I do it as a job. My uncle also owns his own business. So, yeah. I do know how much time and work things take. Some of the stuff he's doing could be pumped out in a couple hours at most. Some will take more time, sure, but a lot of the stuff isn't that complicated.

You guys are just proving my point as well.

[Nagisan]

I'm a programmer. I do it as a job. My uncle also owns his own business. So, yeah. I do know how much time and work things take. Some of the stuff he's doing could be pumped out in a couple hours at most. Some will take more time, sure, but a lot of the stuff isn't that complicated.

You guys are just proving my point as well.

I doubt you are a programmer and I doubt you have any idea how long it takes to set up a business, prove me wrong, oh right....you can't (or won't because you can't). And no, I am not proving your point. Is Minecraft fun? Yes, do I own a copy of it? Nope. Why not? Because on a scale of 1 to 10, my imagination is -2, the last time I played minecraft was during the free period and I haven't touched it since, mostly because I cannot think of anything I want to spend time doing in it.

Seriously, get over yourself. Notch is doing far more in a day than you could probably manage in a week. The reason I do not play Minecraft is because while its a great concept and very well done, I simply lack the motivation and imagination to do anything in it. I prefer games with a solid story, not open-ended games where the story is your imagination.

EDIT: Don't like me saying you can't handle what Notch does? Then prove me wrong, list 1 piece of software you have written from scratch by yourself, or 1 business you have started from scratch by yourself.

[Kirkburn]

I'm a programmer. I do it as a job. My uncle also owns his own business. So, yeah. I do know how much time and work things take. Some of the stuff he's doing could be pumped out in a couple hours at most. Some will take more time, sure, but a lot of the stuff isn't that complicated.

You guys are just proving my point as well.

We're talking about setting up a business from scratch, with no experience. Not running one.

Glad to hear you know so much about how he works.

Proving what point?

[Nagisan]

Proving what point?

He thinks that us proving him wrong means we are defending Notch. I for one just think every point he attempted to make is completely wrong due to lack of experience.

[Xilo]

Seriously, get over yourself. Notch is doing far more in a day than you could probably manage in a week. The reason I do not play Minecraft is because while its a great concept and very well done, I simply lack the motivation and imagination to do anything in it. I prefer games with a solid story, not open-ended games where the story is your imagination.

Seriously, get over yourself.

[Nagisan]

Seriously, get over yourself.

Like I said, your unwilling to prove me wrong because you cant. Fact is Notch doesn't deserve a DDOS, he has done nothing you shouldn't expect from a solo developer trying to start a company.

[Xilo]

Like I said, your unwilling to prove me wrong because you cant. Fact is Notch doesn't deserve a DDOS, he has done nothing you shouldn't expect from a solo developer trying to start a company.

I don't have to prove anything. I do Unix programming for a living. We have deadlines to meet. You know what happens when we don't? You're pretty much out the door. I rarely do projects outside of work because you know, I already do it for a job and I'd rather be doing other things. I've seen all the work my Uncle has done to setup and run his own business. Yet, he's managed to do all the work he has to during which he was setting it up. You can believe it or not.

Just take a look at Dwarf Fortress. Dwarf Fortress has MANY more updates that are also MUCH more complex than anything Notch has done. Toady One updates his site several times a week detailing new bug fixes, new features, etc. He does this every week. It's pretty amazing how much work he actually does. Toady One also runs entirely off donations. There was a period where Toady One had a long time since a new release, but at least he was actually doing work and updating people on details almost daily. Toady One is also very active with his forums, emails, and the entire Dwarf Fortress community. During this period, his donations also dropped pretty drastically. This is comparable to the DDOS on Notch's site. In both cases, fewer releases = players get upset = less money coming in.

Compare this with Notch and the difference is night and day. If Toady One can be that dedicated, what's stopping Notch? They both are in the same circumstances. They both are unemployed and both their income is fueled by their alpha state indie game. Yet, one works on his game to keep users happy with constant new impressive features and bug fixes while the other skits along promising things for quite a while with few updates on actual game progress.

They are indie developers. Both without jobs. To be successful at all, they need to please their customers and reel in new ones or their income will eventually stop. Being an alpha game, they will start to lose customers and players if updates don't happen.

Also, good job constantly proving my last point. ;)

[Kirkburn]

...

Essentially what you're saying is that you get to define what other people do with their lives, and if they don't measure up to your standards, then criminal activity can ensue.

Don't be ridiculous.

He is entitled to do what he feels is best for Minecraft. He's going to finish it, it's going to get updates, it's just a little slower than normal at the moment for the reasons he has been stating. Setting up the business is part of developing Minecraft ... it's not a hobby on the side.

Love how you're obsessed with whether someone is unemployed btw. Not everyone's job is 9 to 5, 8 hours, and he's not technically unemployed ... he's freelance, and getting paid for his Minecraft work. Which is absolutely entitled to do as much or as little as he wants on.

Sure, voice an opinion ... but you're going beyond that.

[Nagisan]

They are indie developers. Both without jobs. To be successful at all, they need to please their customers and reel in new ones or their income will eventually stop. Being an alpha game, they will start to lose customers and players if updates don't happen.

Wrong. They are both indie developers, sure, but one is trying to start a business while the other is not. Starting a business is not as simple as registering the name and opening the doors like you seem to think. There are a LOT more little details you need to care about so you do not get shut down by the state shortly after opening. If done right, its easy for a month to be spent getting together everything you need to properly open a business. Sure, you can do it in a week, but there will be a lot of details you will be ironing out in the first month of your business that you could have finished already if you spent time to do it properly.

Also, good job constantly proving my last point. ;)

Good thing I'm not proving your last point, simply disproving your claims. I mentioned, I do not even own or play minecraft....why would I waste my time defending something I do not own or play and frankly do not care much about? All I'm doing is telling you why you are wrong and you twist it around and act like I am a Notch fanboy....you say I'm doing a good job proving your last point, well, your doing a good job proving your idiocy.

[Tharp Daddy]

I don't have to prove anything. I do Unix programming for a living. We have deadlines to meet. You know what happens when we don't? You're pretty much out the door. I rarely do projects outside of work because you know, I already do it for a job and I'd rather be doing other things. I've seen all the work my Uncle has done to setup and run his own business. Yet, he's managed to do all the work he has to during which he was setting it up. You can believe it or not.

Just take a look at Dwarf Fortress. Dwarf Fortress has MANY more updates that are also MUCH more complex than anything Notch has done. Toady One updates his site several times a week detailing new bug fixes, new features, etc. He does this every week. It's pretty amazing how much work he actually does. Toady One also runs entirely off donations. There was a period where Toady One had a long time since a new release, but at least he was actually doing work and updating people on details almost daily. Toady One is also very active with his forums, emails, and the entire Dwarf Fortress community. During this period, his donations also dropped pretty drastically. This is comparable to the DDOS on Notch's site. In both cases, fewer releases = players get upset = less money coming in.

Compare this with Notch and the difference is night and day. If Toady One can be that dedicated, what's stopping Notch? They both are in the same circumstances. They both are unemployed and both their income is fueled by their alpha state indie game. Yet, one works on his game to keep users happy with constant new impressive features and bug fixes while the other skits along promising things for quite a while with few updates on actual game progress.

They are indie developers. Both without jobs. To be successful at all, they need to please their customers and reel in new ones or their income will eventually stop. Being an alpha game, they will start to lose customers and players if updates don't happen.

Also, good job constantly proving my last point. ;)

No where does purchasing the game mean people are "entitled" to weekly updates - you buy the game because you are trusting he will take it in a good direction, and i doubt these people who feel entitled to weekly update realize that bringing down the man's server is not going to speed things up; if anything it would just make him communicate less with the community in fear that anything that does not meet their standards will open him up to an attack. He is attempting to start a business, alone. He is going to be releasing a huge update, and he HAS a deadline as he has announced when it will be released. When Notch is finally on his feet with this new company i have no doubts new updates will be released constantly since he will have multiple people working along side him. The man created a game by himself, and is expecting a little leeway on updates since he is starting a company, just have some patience - don't launch a DDOS attack because you are displeased.

/rant

[Duality]

Wow, so many gamers these days with a sense of entitlement...

[Minifig]

I'm a programmer. I do it as a job. My uncle also owns his own business. So, yeah. I do know how much time and work things take. Some of the stuff he's doing could be pumped out in a couple hours at most. Some will take more time, sure, but a lot of the stuff isn't that complicated.

You guys are just proving my point as well.

Do me a favor ..

Erase whatever your programming on..

Right now.

Now.. code it by hand.. ALL BY YOURSELF.

[Minifig]

Just take a look at Dwarf Fortress. Dwarf Fortress has MANY more updates that are also MUCH more complex than anything Notch has done.

Bull****.

Notch developed a 3d game, sprites, and everything else.

Dwarf Fortress is a text based game.

[Xilo]

Now.. code it by hand.. ALL BY YOURSELF.

Sometimes, it's actually easier to code from scratch. When you're coding from scratch, you don't have to worry about the constraints of a given system or framework. Working around existing code is probably the biggest hurdle we have with implementing new features.

Notch developed a 3d game, sprites, and everything else.

Dwarf Fortress is a text based game.

Honestly, 3D doesn't mean diddly squat. The 3D is incredibly simplistic as are the sprites and isn't that hard to do since he's just using cubes. Just compare the features of Dwarf Fortress to MineCraft. You have: complete enemy and dwarf AI (to the extent where a Dwarf will morn the loss of someone close or go on a rampage if someone takes his crap), extremely detailed world history, generated towns, farms, roads, civilizations, biomes, caves, enemies, etc. The list is pretty exhaustive.

Just take a look at his website and see how much effort he puts into it and how much he interacts with the community. THAT is what a respectable developer (indie or otherwise) is about. This is what the DDOS is pretty much about -- to send a message to Notch to step it up and actually care for the community and everything else.

[mail]

http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/10/22/minecraft-halloween-update-preview-meet-the-ghasts/

[Nagisan]

Sometimes, it's actually easier to code from scratch. When you're coding from scratch, you don't have to worry about the constraints of a given system or framework. Working around existing code is probably the biggest hurdle we have with implementing new features.

Coding from scratch may cause less headaches but it generally takes longer as long as the base you pick to build your program off of does a majority of the things you want it to do. Go build a basic FPS mod off UE3, now, go build a brand new game from scratch that accomplishes the same thing as that UE3 mod does. Which one takes more time?

Honestly, 3D doesn't mean diddly squat. The 3D is incredibly simplistic as are the sprites and isn't that hard to do since he's just using cubes. Just compare the features of Dwarf Fortress to MineCraft. You have: complete enemy and dwarf AI (to the extent where a Dwarf will morn the loss of someone close or go on a rampage if someone takes his crap), extremely detailed world history, generated towns, farms, roads, civilizations, biomes, caves, enemies, etc. The list is pretty exhaustive.

Just take a look at his website and see how much effort he puts into it and how much he interacts with the community. THAT is what a respectable developer (indie or otherwise) is about. This is what the DDOS is pretty much about -- to send a message to Notch to step it up and actually care for the community and everything else.

To be honest I haven't looked much into Dwarf Fortress until now. And I must say, you are as stupid as I thought. Why the hell are you comparing features from a game that has been around and in development for 8 years (4 years solid development then another 4 years before that of on/off development) to one that has been around for not even 1.5 years yet? Your really comparing a game with 8 years of development to one with 1.5....wth?

Take a snapshot of Dwarf Fortress features right now. Then come back in 2017 and compare that feature list to Minecrafts feature list. Then you will have a valid comparison, until then quit trying to compare DF features to MC.

Based on what I read on the DF site, it had on/off development from 2002 to 2006, so shouldn't we give Notch the same slack that Tarn Adams had during his 4 year on/off development? Sure, Tarn didn't release the game until 2006 or so (from what I can find) after those 4 years of on/off development whereas Notch released his game after 1 week of development. But still, the point is Notch seems to be progressing MUCH more quickly than Tarn, taking only a week to release the game vs 4 years.

So, Notch should step up his game in terms of development while this Tarn Adams who developed DF gets 4 years of slack in your mind? Sounds like DF favoritism to me.

[Duality]

Shame on you Xilo for trying to justify such abhorrent behaviour. I would go as far to say that you personify everything that is wrong with the PC community as a whole right now. What a real shame.

[Minifig]

Just take a look at his website and see how much effort he puts into it and how much he interacts with the community. THAT is what a respectable developer (indie or otherwise) is about. This is what the DDOS is pretty much about -- to send a message to Notch to step it up and actually care for the community and everything else.

Does this mean if you code something that makes a fortune, and you're seeking a way how to improve it via talking to the community that MADE it what it is and take a few minutes off to interact with us.. I get the right to DDoS attack you?

I hope so.. OH BOY do I hope so.

Seriously. What flawed thinking.

He DOES interact, he reads the minecraftforums.net posts.. he actually personally emailed me back about the night I got an email that said my account had a password reset.

That Xilo, is an AWESOME developer.

He doesn't deserve this ****, and 4Chan doesn't deserve the right to do it as he's working his *** on it trying to make it better by adding things that people are asking for AND by interacting asking what people want and then adding it in the frequency that people are asking for it.

If you ask me, you couldn't ask for a better guy to be developing Minecraft or any other game for that matter. I wish all other developers were as cool as Notch.

Pull your head out of your *** and look at all he's done, continues to do for the community, AND WITH THE COMMUNITY, and most of all stop comparing it to Dwarf Fortress.. the two are like apples and oranges.

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

Dawn looks so good now.

[Brandon H Supervisor]

Tip: When in Hell, don't attack the zombie pigs, they'll leave you alone but if you attack one, THEY ALL COME AFTER YOU!!!!

found this out the hard way lol :p

[nub]

They've got several reasons for the DDOS and their actions:

1) Notch is technically unemployed. He makes all his money from Minecraft. If you are unemployed, you should be able to code for a few hours a day. Hell, normal people manage to work for 8 hours a day and 5 days a week.

2) In the beginning, he was pushing out updates weekly and his blog was very active. Now, he rarely updates his blog and a new version hasn't been out in forever. If you have as much free time as Notch has, you could be working on the game more. Setting up an office, hiring employees, etc is just an excuse. That stuff doesn't require a full time job's worth of work for several months.

3) He keeps pushing back updates.

IMO, given the circumstances. He deserves it. He's just riding the popularity while bringing in some serious cash. He knows all the fanboy white knights will defend him and he's really not obligated to do anything because as stated on his website, the game is alpha and could be dropped on a whim.

Sounds like a bunch of little whiny bitches.

[Teebor]

My friend kept going on about this and when showing it to me the first time he couldn't get it to work, it turned out that an update had been released that he had been talking to Notch about and he hadn't updated his own server but had accidentally updated the client.

He sorted that out and then showed me it the next day and it kinda looked meh, then I noticed that another update had been done for halloween and I thought wth and bought it as well since its cheap.

Since then I've only played it a small amount but it was good fun, and I'm now looking to set up my own server when I get the time. Probably thursday

[rajputwarrior]

deadmau5 made his own minecraft server :rofl:

[Brandon H Supervisor]

deadmau5 made his own minecraft server :rofl:

woot when can we play it?

[Vice]

Notch really annoys me with this game. I have my own dedicated game server and I can see first hand the issues with this game.

First of all every time notch releases an update he breaks more things than he fixes. Every he says 'I fixed x' it's actually still broken just in a different way than before. It really is getting frustrating that he releases these little updates seemingly every 8 days that do nothing but break more stuff.

Even more surprising is that mod makers (hey0, llama and others) are able to fix more bugs in Minecraft through class manipulation than Notch is able to do with the actual source code in front of him. Notch has been hinting that Beta is coming soon which will put a freeze on huge feature additions and instead focus on bug fixes and small improvements, I look forward to that but right now I'm disappointed.

And before you say 'but the game is Alpha!!' I'm not complaining about the state of the game. I know it is Alpha. My complaints are that each update he releases makes things worse and not better.

One of his biggest mistakes was to create the Single Player and Multiplayer as separate things. He should have just made Multiplayer and had local instances of the server created for players that wanted to play singleplayer. This is exactly how other developers do things (like Valve) it saves time because you don't need to recreate code twice. If you look at what notch is doing he focuses first on Single Player then he ports those features to the Multiplayer and that is just a stupid and slow way of doing things.

If anyone is wondering I operate a Minecraft server with 140 users, it's been up for several months now and we are in the top 10 of the listed servers on the official Minecraft Alpha Server Listings (I say official, it is operated by the same company that operates the official Forums so it's as official server listing as you can get at the moment :laugh:)