GNOME 3 released

[PGHammer]

  On 06/04/2011 at 20:10, Detection said:

There is not much info on how to use this except to boot it live ?

Is that all we can do with it ?

Depends on what distribution you want to use it with.

The live images are based on openSuSE and Fedora, so they likely are *first up* (I'm going to create an openSuSE VM and add GNOME 3 to it, or at least see if its doable, in addition to testing the live image).

  On 07/04/2011 at 13:27, Joey H said:

I tried running the LiveCD in VirtualBox, and it failed and defaulted back to "fallback mode", which looks very similar to GNOME 2 (menu bar at the top, taskbar at the bottom, max and min buttons, etc). Not too impressed so far...

That's because you *must* install the Guest Additions to get desktop acceleration (which GNOME-Shell requires). Amusingly, standard openSuSE doesn't require the Guest Additions when installed in a VM (as the distribution detects VB and activates the required kernel modules on installation).

[bolerodan]

  On 06/04/2011 at 20:04, ichi said:

Not my kind of thing.

The "snapping" goes straight against what I want and expect a window to do when I drag it to the boder of the screen, ie. go through the edge and out of the way to the extent I want it to. If I want windows to fully maximize (or maximize vertically side by side) I can do that already without resorting to triggers fired by completely unrelated actions *shrugs*

I guess I'll eventually give it a good try, but I don't see any advantages that justify crippling my workflow. It'll certainly get nowhere near my work laptop.

Why do you think you cant do that still? You can still drag a window so most of it is off screen. The only time "snapping" activates, is when your mouse touches the edge of the screen. If you use windows 7 with aero/aero snap enabled, try it. That being said, without window snapping, when you drag a window off screen and your mouse reaches the edge, you can no longer move the window any more anyways. So nothing has changed ,just been added in addition to.

Nothing has really changed in this area.

[abecedarian paradoxious]

I'll be impressed when Linux developers realize the correct advantageous way to implement, and promote their systems.

Who says Linux and Windows are mutually exclusive? Seems to me, the window manager is the logical place to start.

And maybe, incorporating Linux into the window manager, as opposed to integrating the window manager into Linux ....

... nevermind.

[ZekeComa]

  On 07/04/2011 at 17:25, Subject Delta said:

When I didn't think Gnome could possibly get more ugly, I have been proven wrong. People are never going to mass adopt Linux if the GUI looks like something that should have been abandoned 10 years ago

Just because GNOME screws up their users, that doesn't mean there aren't other Desktop Environments for Linux like KDE, XFCE, Fluxbox, etc. You're pretty much claiming that GNOME is Linux. Which you are wrong.

[OuchOfDeath]

Distributions customize GNOME to stand out anyway, Ubuntu being the most obvious example with its previously orange and brown colors, and now black and purple. I don't know what everyone is crying about though. Have any of you seen what the default GNOME2 looks like? It's hideous. GNOME3's default however is so gorgeous, except for the horrible folder icons.

[giga Veteran]

Insert something about imitation and flattery here.

Settings v System Preferences

Modal sheets

Nautlius v Finder

Date and Time

Dock/Expos?

[Subject Delta]

  On 07/04/2011 at 21:14, ZekeComa said:

Just because GNOME screws up their users, that doesn't mean there aren't other Desktop Environments for Linux like KDE, XFCE, Fluxbox, etc. You're pretty much claiming that GNOME is Linux. Which you are wrong.

Most of the mainstream distros seem to use Gnome by default now.

[.Neo]

They really gone all out copying Mac OS X. Pathetic really.

[OuchOfDeath]

The GNOME file manager (Nautilus) has looked like that for years, and I'd hardly argue that's imitation, but simply following a set principle in UI design, which GNOME does have.

The date & time again isn't imitation. Doesn't take a genius to figure out that a visual representation of timezones is better than a drop-down. Many distributions have been using a visual representation of timezones in the installers for years. A quick google of the Ubuntu 6.06 installed(June 2006) shows a visual timezone selector, and it probably goes further back than that

The print dialog... it doesn't even look the same. :s It looks more like the Windows one if anything. You can only do so much with a print dialog. Lets not be going around saying a print dialog is a blatant imitation.

As for the rest yes those are imitations. GNOME 3 is taking a number of pages from OS X, and I see it as the right move personally.

  On 07/04/2011 at 22:02, .Neo said:

They really gone all out copying Mac OS X. Pathetic really.

What's wrong with it? I don't understand why people see copying as bad. That's what competition very often is. It's who can make the better implementation of the same idea. This notion that ideas can never be copied is childish and ridiculous.

[.Neo]

  On 07/04/2011 at 22:02, OuchOfDeath said:

The print dialog... it doesn't even look the same. :s It looks more like the Windows one if anything. You can only do so much with a print dialog. Lets not be going around saying a print dialog is a blatant imitation.

It's about the printing dialogue rolling out of the main window. That's unique to Mac OS X, Apple came up with handling dialogue windows like that when they first introduced Aqua. It's one of its key features. The GNOME 3 dev team went all out copying that concept. Simple as that. Stop making excuses.

  On 07/04/2011 at 22:02, OuchOfDeath said:

What's wrong with it? I don't understand why people see copying as bad. That's what competition very often is. It's who can make the better implementation of the same idea. This notion that ideas can never be copied is childish and ridiculous.

What's wrong with it? Companies like Apple and Microsoft spend millions developing these interfaces and probably have quite a few key features patented. What's happening on Linux lately goes way beyond borrowing an idea and giving their own twist to it. They don't even bother with the latter and just copy entire interface elements. There's absolutely no reason why the GNOME 3 Dock has to look almost exactly like Mac OS X', there's no reason why they need to copy Mac OS X' black with transparent border contextual menus, there's no reason to copy Expos? almost 1:1 down to the labels below windows etc.

[OuchOfDeath]

  On 07/04/2011 at 22:05, .Neo said:

It's about the printing dialogue rolling out of the main window. That's unique to Mac OS X, Apple came up with handling dialogue windows like that when they first introduced Aqua. It's one of its key features. The GNOME 3 dev team went all out copying that concept. Simple as that. Stop making excuses.

Ah I didn't notice that's what he meant. Yeah that's a copy. I'm not making excuses. This " X COPIED APPLE" mindset is everywhere and it's ridiculous. I hear it all the time when Microsoft does anything even remotely similar to what something in OS X looks like, and people simply need to shut up about it. This industry has been copying ideas its entire existence, and it's part of what makes it run.

[.Neo]

  On 07/04/2011 at 22:09, OuchOfDeath said:

Ah I didn't notice that's what he meant. Yeah that's a copy. I'm not making excuses. This " X COPIED APPLE" mindset is everywhere and it's ridiculous. I hear it all the time when Microsoft does anything even remotely similar to what something in OS X looks like, and people simply need to shut up about it. This industry has been copying ideas its entire existence, and it's part of what makes it run.

At least Microsoft has the decency to give its own twist to things, so does Apple. I have no real objection to that. I just think it's pathetic that lately Linux developers don't bother coming up with their own stuff and just copy 90% of things left and right. But hey, that's the reason why these window managers on desktop Linux will always look like some poor hobby project rather than a serious product.

And you're right companies will always "borrow" ideas from each other, it's the near 1:1 copies I have issues with. Something you see a lot these days on Linux.

The Ubuntu team seems to be the only exception here. They do try to go their own route and when copying something at least they give their own spin to it. In most cases at least.

[ichi]

  On 07/04/2011 at 20:01, bolerodan said:

That being said, without window snapping, when you drag a window off screen and your mouse reaches the edge, you can no longer move the window any more anyways.

Actually yes, when I reach the edge of the screen I can still move the window: it switches to the next virtual desktop and I can keep draging.

[OuchOfDeath]

  On 07/04/2011 at 22:14, .Neo said:

At least Microsoft has the decency to give its own twist to things, so does Apple. I have no real objection to that. I just think it's pathetic that lately Linux developers don't bother coming up with their own stuff and just copy 90% of things left and right. But hey, that's the reason why these window managers on desktop Linux will always look like some poor hobby project rather than a serious product.

And you're right companies will always "borrow" ideas from each other, it's the near 1:1 copies I have issues with. Something you see a lot these days on Linux.

The Ubuntu team seems to be the only exception here. They do try to go their own route and when copying something at least they give their own spin to it. In most cases at least.

I'd hardly call the Windows 7 taskbar a "twist". It's obviously a blatant copy of the OS X dock, and for -good- reason. The previous text-based taskbars are simply unintuitive. Visual icons do more than text every could for window management. This is the right way to go about window management. Apple got it right with the dock forever ago, and the fact that others are finally doing the same is hardly a "ripoff" but the fact that this is the correct standard way to go about window management. I think that there's a point where something that has been around for a very long time and proves itself to be the superior way of going about window management isn't a "blatant ripoff" but being smart and doing things the right way. Sometimes copying one idea that has been around for a very long time is a good move, and lets you innovate in other areas. The system tray and the way messaging is integrated into it for example is one area where GNOME is doing some fantastic innovation. Ignoring all that, I think it was the right move for users anyway. Release with a solid and very usable Desktop Environment as the first release, and then begin the innovation once a solid and trustworthy base has been established.

As for Ubuntu, have you seen what their new desktop looks like? It's the closest copy of OS X there exists. GNOME 3 looks like the shining innovator compared to what Ubuntu's Unity desktop looks like.

[Kreuger]

never been a fan but congrats to them

[LiquidSolstice]

  On 07/04/2011 at 22:14, .Neo said:

At least Microsoft has the decency to give its own twist to things, so does Apple. I have no real objection to that. I just think it's pathetic that lately Linux developers don't bother coming up with their own stuff and just copy 90% of things left and right. But hey, that's the reason why these window managers on desktop Linux will always look like some poor hobby project rather than a serious product.

Indeed, how dare they. I think you should go get a refund for what you paid the Gnome devs, that's totally unacceptable.

[Syanide]

  On 07/04/2011 at 21:47, giga said:

Insert something about imitation and flattery here.

...

lol. Are the screenshots yours? Just so I know who to credit, might post this elsewhere.

[giga Veteran]

  On 07/04/2011 at 22:50, Syanide said:

lol. Are the screenshots yours? Just so I know who to credit, might post this elsewhere.

Feel free to post without credit.

[Subject Delta]

The "apple did it first" crowd never fail to enlighten us on these topics. I mean seriously, who cares? the whole computing industry is founded on people using each other's ideas. And shock, horror, Apple have done it as well, they don't invent everything.

[.Neo]

  On 07/04/2011 at 22:48, LiquidSolstice said:

Indeed, how dare they. I think you should go get a refund for what you paid the Gnome devs, that's totally unacceptable.

Ah so open source becomes an excuse so it's okay to bring a product to the market that's a total rip-off. No, I get it!

  On 07/04/2011 at 22:37, OuchOfDeath said:

I'd hardly call the Windows 7 taskbar a "twist". It's obviously a blatant copy of the OS X dock, and for -good- reason.

The taskbar looks totally different from the Mac OS X Dock. The GNOME 3 Dock doesn't. Not only did they copy some functionality, they went after the almost exact same look. Obviously with it still being part of Linux and all they didn't get it quite right.

[giga Veteran]

  On 07/04/2011 at 23:00, Subject Delta said:

The "apple did it first" crowd never fail to enlighten us on these topics. I mean seriously, who cares? the whole computing industry is founded on people using each other's ideas. And shock, horror, Apple have done it as well, they don't invent everything.

It really doesn't matter to me. If it means more people can experience better UIs, then by all means. I just found it surprising at how many different concepts they took at once. (Including Aero Snap)

[LiquidSolstice]

  On 07/04/2011 at 23:05, .Neo said:

Ah so open source becomes an excuse so it's okay to bring a product to the market that's a total rip-off. No, I get it!

"blah blah blah I'm still not understanding that I'm getting something for free and shouldn't be complaining about it"

[Subject Delta]

  On 07/04/2011 at 23:06, giga said:

It really doesn't matter to me. If it means more people can experience better UIs, then by all means. I just found it surprising at how many different concepts they took at once. (Including Aero Snap)

It just smacks of bad design to me, they haven't imitated them well which would be of more concern to me than what was copied from whom. The UI is incredibly ugly and space wasting, I am glad Ubuntu have decided to look beyond Gnome, and I hope more Linux vendors follow suit.

[ViperAFK]

  On 07/04/2011 at 22:37, OuchOfDeath said:

I'd hardly call the Windows 7 taskbar a "twist". It's obviously a blatant copy of the OS X dock, and for -good- reason. The previous text-based taskbars are simply unintuitive. Visual icons do more than text every could for window management. This is the right way to go about window management. Apple got it right with the dock forever ago, and the fact that others are finally doing the same is hardly a "ripoff" but the fact that this is the correct standard way to go about window management. I think that there's a point where something that has been around for a very long time and proves itself to be the superior way of going about window management isn't a "blatant ripoff" but being smart and doing things the right way. Sometimes copying one idea that has been around for a very long time is a good move, and lets you innovate in other areas. The system tray and the way messaging is integrated into it for example is one area where GNOME is doing some fantastic innovation. Ignoring all that, I think it was the right move for users anyway. Release with a solid and very usable Desktop Environment as the first release, and then begin the innovation once a solid and trustworthy base has been established.

As for Ubuntu, have you seen what their new desktop looks like? It's the closest copy of OS X there exists. GNOME 3 looks like the shining innovator compared to what Ubuntu's Unity desktop looks like.

And apple wasn't the first to do a "dock" either. its an idea thats been kicking around for quite some time.

[.Neo]

  On 07/04/2011 at 23:07, LiquidSolstice said:

"blah blah blah I'm still not understanding that I'm getting something for free and shouldn't be complaining about it"

Best you can come up with?