updates Meet the browser: Firefox Next

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

I was comparing it to Safari on Mac by the way. But even on Windows, they did a pretty solid job.

So on the Mac, just to name a few, about Firefox :

- The prefpane is super slow

- It still doesn?t have Lion?s scrollbar (which doesn?t require much on the Developer?s end)

- It still doesn?t have Lion?s full-screen (which doesn?t require much on the Developer?s end)

- The back button is a complete joke visually

- The complementary modules is just strange? as in, it opens a webpage rather than staying in the application itself.

- The close button on the tabs is on the right instead of being on the left.

- Closing the contextual menu doesn?t fade it out. It simply disappears.

- The tab group certainly doesn?t use native OS X animations. It?s all screwed up.

- The gear icon in the popup window when you display all your favorites is different than the Finder?s, and while we?re at it, all the icons are a shade darker...

• The prefpane performs fine for me, so I can't comment
  
• That depends on how the application does it's rendering, it's hard for Firefox due to it's use of OpenGL (How do you render a Lion style scrollbar to an offscreen rotated OpenGL buffer? Through temporary surfaces and private APIs)
  
• Fullscreen is a but harder due to the fact Firefox already implements it in a certain way, which is different to how Lion wants it (which is one of the concerns about it, Lion's fullscreen support is more limited than what Firefox currently offers)
  
• That's visual, any app has that issue (Even Apple does custom icons)
  
• No idea what a "complementary module" is
  
• That's just how Safari does it, those tabs are custom (and other apps do it the way Firefox does)
  
• I didn't even notice that until you pointed it out, that's down to Firefox not using the OS X context menus on purpose (For a while they used custom main menus too, but they stopped that unfortunately, you used to be able to right click on bookmarks, now you need to open the manager)
  
• How would the tab groups using a native animation? Apple didn't write that feature (And even then it's just interpolating between two states, which Firefox already does)
  
• The icons being different is a given, lots of apps don't use the Finder icons (and FX9 should have a nicer themed icon, it got lots of Lion theme work, which funnily enough stops it being on the App Store since Apple hid those things behind a private API)
  

Taking scrollbars as an example, they're custom in Safari as well, but they have the benefit of knowing how scrollbars function long before other developers, and they can copy the code or borrow the developers who worked on it to implement it in WebKit. Anybody using the normal OS X APIs to draw a scrollbar will have the same result as Firefox does currently.

[PyX]

• That's visual, any app has that issue (Even Apple does custom icons)
  
• No idea what a "complementary module" is
  
• That's just how Safari does it, those tabs are custom (and other apps do it the way Firefox does)
  

• I was talking about the shape of the button, not the icon. The round circle doesn?t fit in the Mac OS X universe, especially since Apple provides beautiful native buttons in the dev kit. What annoys me the most is that there?s actually someone who worked to make a third-party button, while he could have chosen the native one in a single drag n drop.
  
• Sorry, I had it in French and translated it literally. I meant the Add-on manager. Why Firefox a whole application to manage just about everything, but then suddenly it opens a webpage to manage your add-ons is over me. Reminds me of Chrome, but at least Chrome is constant about it, it manages most of itself via webpages.
  
• Even though you are right that tabs are custom in Safari, at least they put the x on the left as it should.
  

- Just noticed something else : The (?) button in the prefpane is a custom, purple question mark. To begin with, they should have stolen the one Apple provides, like every respectable Mac developer does, instead of wasting time to make a custom colored one that doesn?t fit in.

- Secondly, they put it on the bottom left corner instead of the bottom right corner of the pane. At this point, I?m wondering if they have a problem with their left and right, when developing their applications ?

- Also, they added titles over their horizontal rules in the prefpane. The only app that does it on my entire Mac OS X Lion is Adium and Office 2011 and they're third-party. Plus, at least they do it in a way that it doesn?t waste space, by cutting the line and putting the text on it instead of over it.

I know I might sound picky, but this is just how Mac OS X apps are made. They?re all about the details, and this is what differentiates them from other platforms. Apple doesn?t provide a design guidelines document for nothing on their developer?s website.

By the way, after trying the latest Nightly of Firefox 11, it doesn?t fix any of my concerns. No wonder why I?ve given up on Firefox 3 years ago.

[mancode20]

Anyone know why Firefox 10 Beta isn't on the release channel yet? I don't see it on the ftp either. Was it delayed? I thought it would've been out by now. Also, anyone using the new Download Manager in Nightly 12? Did they add a feature to clear the whole download history yet? I would like to hear some feedback or see some screenshots if possible. Thanks!

[mysiskatten]

Anyone know why Firefox 10 Beta isn't on the release channel yet? I don't see it on the ftp either. Was it delayed? I thought it would've been out by now. Also, anyone using the new Download Manager in Nightly 12? Did they add a feature to clear the whole download history yet? I would like to hear some feedback or see some screenshots if possible. Thanks!

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Releases/Firefox_10.0b1/BuildNotes

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Releases/Firefox_10/Test_Plan#Beta_1

[+Zlip792 MVC]

Some new stuff in FF12:

Implement border-image revisions in latest css3-background (will land)

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=497995

Some hackery removal in JSengine: (will land)

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=692274

Update of OTS to r77: (will land)

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=712217

Steps for Generational GC, adding Write barriers: (landed)

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=712488

MemShrink: (landed)

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=712614

removal of scrollbar from Customize toolbar: (will land)

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=419231

will land: means currently in Mozilla-Inbound or FX-Team, will be in Mozilla-central on next merger.

[mancode20]

https://wiki.mozilla....0b1/BuildNotes

https://wiki.mozilla...est_Plan#Beta_1

It's out! Thanks! Now, the only question is which one to use? 9, 10, 11, or 12? I'm thinking either 10 or 11. 10 doesn't have the UAC dialog popping up when Firefox needs to update, so that's nice. I would assume that's in 11 and 12 as well. Plus, 11 and 12 should have the new Download Manager. Download Manager is cool, but I want the stability of 10 or 11. Anyone have any info/screenshots on the new Download Manager? I've used it before in one of the test builds, but I want to know what, if anything did they recently change/update in the latest release?

[BetaAddict]

It's out! Thanks! Now, the only question is which one to use? 9, 10, 11, or 12? I'm thinking either 10 or 11. 10 doesn't have the UAC dialog popping up when Firefox needs to update, so that's nice. I would assume that's in 11 and 12 as well. Plus, 11 and 12 should have the new Download Manager. Download Manager is cool, but I want the stability of 10 or 11. Anyone have any info/screenshots on the new Download Manager? I've used it before in one of the test builds, but I want to know what, if anything did they recently change/update in the latest release?

If you search the thread, you should be able to find a few screenshots a couple of pages back.

I'm using Nightly 11 for months now and it is usually stable enough for everyday use, and also has a x64 build. But the new download manager still hasn't been implemented yet. AFAIK, it may still be in the UX build where they test ui changes if it near finished.

[mysiskatten]

It's out! Thanks! Now, the only question is which one to use? 9, 10, 11, or 12? I'm thinking either 10 or 11. 10 doesn't have the UAC dialog popping up when Firefox needs to update, so that's nice. I would assume that's in 11 and 12 as well. Plus, 11 and 12 should have the new Download Manager. Download Manager is cool, but I want the stability of 10 or 11. Anyone have any info/screenshots on the new Download Manager? I've used it before in one of the test builds, but I want to know what, if anything did they recently change/update in the latest release?

Download manager is only in UX build

[Knife Party]

It's out! Thanks! Now, the only question is which one to use? 9, 10, 11, or 12? I'm thinking either 10 or 11. 10 doesn't have the UAC dialog popping up when Firefox needs to update, so that's nice. I would assume that's in 11 and 12 as well. Plus, 11 and 12 should have the new Download Manager. Download Manager is cool, but I want the stability of 10 or 11. Anyone have any info/screenshots on the new Download Manager? I've used it before in one of the test builds, but I want to know what, if anything did they recently change/update in the latest release?

http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/new-firefox-download-manager-appears-in-ux-build-2011097/

[Pikey]

It's out! Thanks! Now, the only question is which one to use? 9, 10, 11, or 12? I'm thinking either 10 or 11. 10 doesn't have the UAC dialog popping up when Firefox needs to update, so that's nice. I would assume that's in 11 and 12 as well. Plus, 11 and 12 should have the new Download Manager. Download Manager is cool, but I want the stability of 10 or 11. Anyone have any info/screenshots on the new Download Manager? I've used it before in one of the test builds, but I want to know what, if anything did they recently change/update in the latest release?

Here's a pretty good summary of whats going on .... http://betanews.com/...10-11-12-or-ux/

[Kyang]

Question: I'm using the Nightlies right now, and I've read about the silent updates. I'm still receiving UAC prompts for each update. Is this normal, or was I supposed to reinstall Nightly at some point?

[RoadFx]

There are no silent updates yet.

[Kirkburn]

Here's a pretty good summary of whats going on .... http://betanews.com/...10-11-12-or-ux/

I disagree, it's not a good summary at all (at least, for understanding the development process - it's a bit better for listing features).

You have a release, beta, aurora and nightly channels. Why on earth he talks about skipping releases makes no sense - you choose a channel, and you are kept updated on that channel. You can't go from Fx8 to Fx10 without changing channel (which entails reinstalling Firefox).

He also doesn't appear to understand what Aurora is (it's a pre-beta stabilization channel). No new features will land on Fx11, now that it is in Aurora (it can only lose features and gain bug fixes). He also implies it is installed alongside a stable or beta build - no, that's entirely up to the user. I only use Aurora, and I've zero issues with it.

At the time of writing, Firefox Nightly exhibits no new features above and beyond that of Aurora

Of course it doesn't, Aurora is a six weekly snapshot of Nightly - so at the time of the snapshot, they're identical.

If you want to choose a Firefox version/channel here's how:

• Want complete stability and support - choose Release
  
• Want to preview new features, but still have very good stability and support - choose Beta
  
• Like the cutting edge, but don't want to take big risks - choose Aurora
  
• Live life on the bleeding edge, and aren't worried about needing to troubleshoot major issues - choose Nightly
  
• (Choose UX if you want to check out the latest UI change tests, but it's similar to Nightly in terms of support and stability, and updated less frequently)
  

There's six weeks of development between each version, so just choose a channel and stick with it - you're not going to be missing out of something for long. Imho, switching channels all the time is really just a waste of time unless you have a really pressing need.

[bogas04]

Firefox 9 won Tom's Hardware Grandprix VIII.

\m/

[mysiskatten]

Firefox 9 won Tom's Hardware Grandprix VIII.

\m/

like... nice read. thx

[+Zlip792 MVC]

Silent Update landed on Nightly.... Working good.

It is only for 32 bit for now, for 64-bit bug has been filed by Brian.

It removes UAC dialog and progress bar after restart on clicking Apply Update.

[dnast]

Silent Update landed on Nightly.... Working good.

It is only for 32 bit for now, for 64-bit bug has been filed by Brian.

It removes UAC dialog and progress bar after restart on clicking Apply Update.

Working good so far. I went to update after seeing your post only to realize I was already using a build with silent updates.

Seems like the last update file was smaller than usual, too (1.8mb), but I could be remembering things wrong.

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

The nightly updates vary in size based on what's landed during the past day, sometimes they're 400K other times they're 8MB, etc.

[bogas04]

I have filed two bugs please do consider to check them :p

Firefox Fullscreen API "Press Esc to leave FullScreen" delay should be shorter and should not mask actual video with black tint

Kill "Firefox Is Already Running But Is Not Responding" dialog

[+Zlip792 MVC]

Little kind of snappy: https://bugzilla.moz...g.cgi?id=713269

For Mac OS X font issue: https://bugzilla.moz...g.cgi?id=715513

More Cairo API: https://bugzilla.moz...g.cgi?id=715652 , https://bugzilla.moz...g.cgi?id=707848, https://bugzilla.moz...g.cgi?id=715652

Crash fix: https://bugzilla.moz...g.cgi?id=682625

Another snappy: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=711970

[spUrr]

Does this really mean we will be up to version 16 by june ??

[Kirkburn]

Does this really mean we will be up to version 16 by june ??

Yes. And Chrome will be in the twenties.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter how big the number is. Users are getting a new release every six weeks, with six weeks-worth of updates.

This kind of release numbering is somewhat new territory, and understandably feels a bit odd, but there's no perfect solution.

[+M2Ys4U Subscriber¹]

This kind of release numbering is somewhat new territory, and understandably feels a bit odd, but there's no perfect solution.

If they (Mozilla and Google) are doing time-based releases, I reckon they should use dates as version numbers.

e.g. 12.0, 12.1 etc. for the first, second etc. releases of 2012. Backwards-compatible patches can still use the third delimiter as they do now.

[dnast]

The nightly updates vary in size based on what's landed during the past day, sometimes they're 400K other times they're 8MB, etc.

Mine seem to be 3MB - 6MB typically even when not much has changed (based off my poor memory, mind you). Of course they're closer to 20MB if I miss an update or two. The 1.8MB was probably nothing special, but I must say I've definitely never seen any update close to as low as 400k and I've been using Minefield/Nightly as my default browser since late 2010 (this is with Win7). I was thinking that maybe the old updates always included the updater.exe executable with each update and that it was no longer necessary to do so hence the smaller update this time.

Anyway, I can't wait 'til things pick back up. I'm starting to miss all the Bugzilla spam, hehe.

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

If they (Mozilla and Google) are doing time-based releases, I reckon they should use dates as version numbers.

e.g. 12.0, 12.1 etc. for the first, second etc. releases of 2012. Backwards-compatible patches can still use the third delimiter as they do now.

The only reason they're doing major version jumps is because that's the easiest method with their build tools. The main problem is that people just aren't used to the new schedule. Google is lucky with Chrome since they never had a version based schedule, so even though they use the same system that Mozilla uses, nobody cares. In time people will accept that the Mozilla version numbers are no longer about major features and additions, but are simply used to mean "Version X is newer/older than Version Y"

Mine seem to be 3MB - 6MB typically even when not much has changed (based off my poor memory, mind you). Of course they're closer to 20MB if I miss an update or two. The 1.8MB was probably nothing special, but I must say I've definitely never seen any update close to as low as 400k and I've been using Minefield/Nightly as my default browser since late 2010 (this is with Win7). I was thinking that maybe the old updates always included the updater.exe executable with each update and that it was no longer necessary to do so hence the smaller update this time.

Anyway, I can't wait 'til things pick back up. I'm starting to miss all the Bugzilla spam, hehe.

Yeah, if I miss an update it's around an 19MB download, it's annoying on my Mac though, because those updates are 38MB or so (Since they're 32/64bit binaries). When the tree is closed due to certain events I've seen 400K updates and smaller (All that changes is the build number)