alexalex Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Old promise : "Your files are actually safer while stored in your Dropbox than on your computer in some cases. We use the same secure methods as banks and the military to send and store your data...Nobody can see your private files in Dropbox unless you deliberately invite them or put them in your Public folder.".. New ToS : "As set forth in our privacy policy, and in compliance with United States law, Dropbox cooperates with United States law enforcement when it receives valid legal process, which may require Dropbox to provide the contents of your private Dropbox," . Furthermore: "In these cases, Dropbox will remove Dropbox's encryption from the files before providing them to law enforcement." Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/991554-dropbox-opens-subscriber-files-to-law-enforcement/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 It's a shame they changed it :( Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/991554-dropbox-opens-subscriber-files-to-law-enforcement/#findComment-593913410 Share on other sites More sharing options...
presence06 Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 We are slowly losing our rights on the interwebs... our emails are open for the Government, now our "private" data is open for them as well.. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/991554-dropbox-opens-subscriber-files-to-law-enforcement/#findComment-593913444 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkick Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Time to start encrypting the files before upload. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/991554-dropbox-opens-subscriber-files-to-law-enforcement/#findComment-593913458 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Xinok Subscriber² Posted April 20, 2011 Subscriber² Share Posted April 20, 2011 SpiderOak :whistle: Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/991554-dropbox-opens-subscriber-files-to-law-enforcement/#findComment-593913468 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeEsquire Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Um, this has no practical change. If Dropbox received a court order to reveal your data, they would have done it under the old ToS too. A court order is a court order. If people could just "refuse", that would make court orders pretty useless. Learn that nothing in life is "private". Whether your stash your information on your hard drive at home or onto Dropbox or in a shoebox under your bed, you'd have to turn it over if you received a court order. Nothing has changed and no rights are "eroding". This is how it's always been. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/991554-dropbox-opens-subscriber-files-to-law-enforcement/#findComment-593913478 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkick Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 The courts cannot MAKE you remember the 32 (or however many) character encrypted passkey if you just happen to forget it when they ask for it. :shiftyninja: SpiderOak :whistle: +1 Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/991554-dropbox-opens-subscriber-files-to-law-enforcement/#findComment-593913510 Share on other sites More sharing options...
#Michael Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Lifehacker has an interesting way to increase security...use truecrypt containers: http://lifehacker.com/#!5794486/how-to-add-a-second-layer-of-encryption-to-dropbox Also...I could use some help with increasing my DB size: http://db.tt/sy56rjW Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/991554-dropbox-opens-subscriber-files-to-law-enforcement/#findComment-593917120 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeEsquire Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 The courts cannot MAKE you remember the 32 (or however many) character encrypted passkey if you just happen to forget it when they ask for it. :shiftyninja: +1 Lifehacker has an interesting way to increase security...use truecrypt containers: http://lifehacker.com/#!5794486/how-to-add-a-second-layer-of-encryption-to-dropbox Also...I could use some help with increasing my DB size: http://db.tt/sy56rjW That won't stop the courts. If you have encrypted files and refuse to unencrypt them, the courts can presume they are illegal materials such as child porn. http://blog.emagined.com/2009/09/09/encryption-is-evidence-of-illegal-activity/ Most of our readers will be aware that the Customs Service has a program to search the laptops of selected travelers returning to the United States. Typically, a traveler is asked to step aside, power on the computer, and provide the password so that the computer can be perused ostensibly for contraband. Of course, anyone who experiences this will, at best, find this a huge hassle. Moreover, if you also happen to be trafficking in child pornography or jihadist writings, your trip may get a lot worse at this point. However, what if you?re a mild-mannered businessman ? or woman ? who?s been abroad on business and just wants to get home with his or her company provided laptop?The answer is it?s not so pretty. There are many reasons you might not want the government to know the contents of your laptop. For example, your laptop might contain the confidential information of clients for whom you provide highly sensitive and confidential advice. Or, your laptop may contain writings that are privileged communications between yourself and your attorney; or your laptop might contain the confidential intellectual property of your employer which you are bound to keep secret under the terms of your employment contract, unless you are compelled to reveal it through judicial due process. The little kabuki drama that unfolds at Customs is not a judicial due process. So, you may be tempted to simply refuse to provide the password to unlock and/or decrypt the computer. Now what? The government may seize your computer and keep it for an indeterminate period of time while they examine it for contraband. Apparently, after a recent ruling by the United States District Court, you have essentially no rights in this matter. [Genao v. U.S., 2009 WL 1033384 (U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York 2009)] This is true even if you are a US citizen with a valid passport having traveled abroad legally and satisfied all of the procedural requirements. The government need not show ?probable cause? in order to look at your computer. In fact, as with compulsory sobriety checkpoints, the government may simply pursue a program of spot checks and random searches in order to reach its reasonable goal of preventing contraband from entering the country. In Genao the ruling came on a motion to return seized computers, hard disks and CDs after the conclusion of a child pornography trafficking case in which Genao was convicted. The government had been unable to decrypt many of the CDs. Nevertheless, the court held that the presence of encryption gives rise to a reasonable presumption that the illegal data must be on the encrypted storage devices. In this case, the illegal activity was child pornography; the court reasoned that encrypted files and storage devices could be presumed to contain contraband and were not returned to Genao, even though the legal precedent established that there was no reason for the government to retain the encrypted disks after a conviction had been obtained and the case concluded. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/991554-dropbox-opens-subscriber-files-to-law-enforcement/#findComment-593917148 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Observer Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 so this applys to people outside the US, time to move on to someone else, i dont have anything bad on there, but as a Non-US person i shouldnt be held to US laws! Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/991554-dropbox-opens-subscriber-files-to-law-enforcement/#findComment-593917152 Share on other sites More sharing options...
#Michael Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 That won't stop the courts. If you have encrypted files and refuse to unencrypt them, the courts can presume they are illegal materials such as child porn. http://blog.emagined.com/2009/09/09/encryption-is-evidence-of-illegal-activity/ But they cannot force you to remove the encryption...that would violate your 4th/5th amendment rights. They cannot force me to turn over the password to the container. Presumption does not indicate guilt. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/991554-dropbox-opens-subscriber-files-to-law-enforcement/#findComment-593917160 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argi Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 I don't like knowing the US government has access to all my data. SpiderOak does look like a nice alternative... Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/991554-dropbox-opens-subscriber-files-to-law-enforcement/#findComment-593917180 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Observer Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 But they cannot force you to remove the encryption...that would violate your 4th/5th amendment rights. They cannot force me to turn over the password to the container. Presumption does not indicate guilt. and how doesn't apply to people outside the US. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/991554-dropbox-opens-subscriber-files-to-law-enforcement/#findComment-593917188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeEsquire Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 But they cannot force you to remove the encryption...that would violate your 4th/5th amendment rights. They cannot force me to turn over the password to the container. Presumption does not indicate guilt. Presumption as in the jury may presume that you have child porn in your Dropbox. At that point, it's pretty easy to get a guilty verdict... And no, there is no 4th or 5th Amendment violation for removing encryption. I have no idea where you got that from. I don't like knowing the US government has access to all my data. SpiderOak does look like a nice alternative... SpiderOak is subject to subpoena as well. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/991554-dropbox-opens-subscriber-files-to-law-enforcement/#findComment-593917202 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argi Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 SpiderOak is subject to subpoena as well. Right, but all SpiderOak can provide is the encrypted data and the encrypted keys to that data. Your password is required to unlock the keys which unlocks the data. Dropbox on the other hand will provide it as is. It probably isn't a big deal in the end but it's something to keep in the back of my mind. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/991554-dropbox-opens-subscriber-files-to-law-enforcement/#findComment-593917208 Share on other sites More sharing options...
#Michael Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Presumption as in the jury may presume that you have child porn in your Dropbox. At that point, it's pretty easy to get a guilty verdict... And no, there is no 4th or 5th Amendment violation for removing encryption. I have no idea where you got that from. SpiderOak is subject to subpoena as well. Encryption cannot be removed without an encryption key or password. 5th amendment provides me with the protection against self-incrimination and thus I do not half to provide the court, police, or any other agency with the means to remove the encryption to my data. 4th amendment provides me against unreasonable search and seizure...very cut and dry. Last time I looked we are innocent until proven guilty...so in a case of data encryption if a jury presumes that I am cp just because I have my data encrypted then I could argue that is a tainted jury. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/991554-dropbox-opens-subscriber-files-to-law-enforcement/#findComment-593917224 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reacon Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 SpiderOak :whistle: Oh my god I can't thank you more. I've been looking forever for an alternative to Dropbox! Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/991554-dropbox-opens-subscriber-files-to-law-enforcement/#findComment-593917238 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh400 Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Land of hope and the free, am I right? :rofl: Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/991554-dropbox-opens-subscriber-files-to-law-enforcement/#findComment-593917260 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJohnSmitherson Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 SpiderOak :whistle: This is VERY interesting! Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/991554-dropbox-opens-subscriber-files-to-law-enforcement/#findComment-593917276 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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